Ryze business networking

Home

Sign-up

About Ryze

Refreshing Marketing

Previous Topic | Next Topic

| Topics

The Refreshing Marketing Network is not currently active and cannot accept new posts

Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Dec 29, 2005 4:26 pm

Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Dean H.

This is a topic that is near and dear to me for various reasons. There were a few blog entries in the past that talked about the value or lack there of, of an MBA with respect to succeeding in entrepreneurship. Seth Godin talked about it on his blog. A popular venture capital blog talked about it as well.

I really liked Seth's comments about why an MBA can be worthless in entrepreneurship. He says;

I get away with this heresy since I, in fact, have my own fancy MBA from Stanford. The fact is, though, that unless you want to be a consultant or an i-banker (where a top MBA is nothing but a screen for admission) it's hard for me to understand why this is a better use of time and money than actual experience combined with a dedicated reading of 30 or 40 books.

If you want to succeed in business, just read some books, meet alot of people, and have a high FQ [failure quotient] rate.

I've got friends who run or want to run their own business. They give me this spiel about the value of getting an MBA. I eventually tune out when they start trying to convince me the value of MBA. It's always something along the lines of prestige and knowledge.

Personally, I think the biggest oxymoron out there is an MBA in entrepreneurship. How do you really teach entrepreneurship in a classroom environment. You can't. How does a business school justify charging someone more than $50,000 in tuition to get a degree in entrepreneurship??? Talk about the fleecing of America.

Do you know what they really teach you in business school? They teach you how to use the words, "globalization" and "synergy" in an intellectual way. They also teach you how to get brainwashed by Corporate America. And then you come out broke and severely in debt for the next 10 years of your life. To go to school and get an MBA in entrepreneurship is like saying that you want to buy experience in entrepreneurship. You can't buy that type of experience.

I value an education as much as anyone else does. I graduated from a top 25 business school. I'm one of 5 kids and have 3 older siblings. My family migrated to this country to provide me a better life. One way to have a better life is to get an education. Out of 3 older siblings, I was the first to graduate from college. Lord knows, mommy dearest was very proud when that day came along. Or as my older sister would, "It's about time, bro." If you've never met my older sister, she is like the older prettier version of me. But she still has the same wit and sarcastic tongue that I do. When the two of us get together, we're both trying to see who has the sharper wit.

With the creations of online networks, blogs, and other forms of knowledge sharing tools, I can't fathom how any of my friends, who are extremely bright people, want to dedicate a few more years in a classroom setting. Talk about a waste of time. Why delay the American Dream for a few more years when you can start now. Today.

Wise businessman once told me; "Your success in life will depend on the books you read and the people you meet." When I first heard this comment, I almost told the guy to shut up because I didn't believe him. Like many others, I thought our success in life was predicated upon the idea of an education. Wrong!

So to all those who think you need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship, I have one thing to say, "Gimme a break."

Dean

H. Dean Hua | Principal & Chief Web Evangelist
SachiStudio | http://www.sachistudio.com

Private Reply to Dean H.

Dec 29, 2005 4:56 pm

re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Angelo Cerase

Don't forget that both Bill Gates and Paul Allen didn't finish their undergraduate degrees before starting Microsoft.

Things seemed to have worked out for them, even without an MBA.

Gates:

http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Gates.Mirick.html

Allen:

http://www.thocp.net/biographies/allen_paul.htm

Angelo

Private Reply to Angelo Cerase

Dec 29, 2005 5:51 pm

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

CK Aspinwall

Hiya!

I just want to jump up and shout . . .

.........................Yeah!

..............Yeah!

.....Yeah!

.........................Yeah!

That is so right on!

I have a theory about college. They spend four years teaching you all this boring and useless stuff in order to make you hungry for something better.

To be an entreprenuer, one must be hungry, ambitious and somewhat aggressive in making your own experience and reading the books you want to read. In other words, we must educate ourselves. We must seek the knowledge and the wisdom to assume our rightful place in the adulk world.

School is for kids. Real time education is for the wise.

Right on!

Ken

Private Reply to CK Aspinwall

Dec 30, 2005 9:05 am

re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Teresa Berger

Wow! You are right, an MBA won't make you a good or better entrepreneur. I recently finished an MBA through University of Phoenix online and do not feel it prepared me for starting my own business. It did however increase my confidence in my abilities and in myself as a professional.

These days, pretty much anyone can get an MBA if they have the time and money. It's almost becoming as common as having a Bachelor's. So at times I do wonder if all of the student loan debt I have now, and all of the stress was worth it. But I think I am a better person (personally and professionally) for having endured the two years in online classes to acquire my MBA.

Teresa H. Berger

Private Reply to Teresa Berger

Dec 30, 2005 11:21 am

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Kevin Barrett

Hello everyone.. I am not quite back from relax mode… but.. this topic is an interesting one.

And I thought I would provide some thoughts on it.

“First off… Education is the Most Important Ingredient….. for an Entrepreneur…

With out Education you CAN NOT be an Entrepreneur… “ quote KJ Barrett…

I know that statement has most likely elicited a few strong emotions… but it is true…

Now, comes the “Kicker”…. Education is “Everywhere” and in “Everything”….

The root meaning of Education means to “Draw out”… quite literally the “Educator” the vehicle to help the student, must help draw out what is to be learned…. By definition it must be a multimodal process….

Our current and antiquated “Bricks and Mortar” educational system is BY DESIGN to be ridged and somewhat myopic…

Question? Should we discard the concept of Education, simply because the processes of the Educational “System” is not matched to those that are seeking the education?

I was a student of Peter Drucker. A remarkable, Thinker. Peter coined the term “Knowledge Worker”, many, many years ago…

We were in the middle of what was called the “Information Society”.. and he was saying, and this is a paraphrase…. “O.K., so what… you are able to gather and collect information… that is useless, until you can convert it into Knowledge”… He envisioned people turning Information into knowledge… hence the term “Knowledge Worker”

In 1997 Nonaka and Takeuchi, wrote a superb book on this topic called “Knowledge Creating Companies”… some 15 years after Peter Drucker was talking about the “Knowledge Worker”.

Many of you may know I worked for many years with 3M Company.. one of the most innovative and entrepreneurial companies in the world… Back in the early 80”s… we would have discussions about the importance of Education… The company at that time wanted to accelerate it’s new product introductions…

Why? Well, at that time 3M’s share price was grossly undervalued…. It was an excellent company, with many great innovative idea’s, but it had been closely held for a long time and it became the target for a hostile take over, by a large Petroleum Company.

How do you prevent this take over?

The company realized that their greatest asset was their exceptionally creative employee’s. When you looked at the cross section of educational backgrounds, they did not have a large preponderance of advanced degree people. But they still had a creative, entrepreneurial organization.

They would have to go on a major P.R. exercise to educate “Wall Street” that this company 3M was remarkable…. And worth investing in. Along came Tom Peters and Ken Waterman. And within a year a Best Selling Book called “In Search of Excellence” was on the best selling list… and the Share price of 3M almost tripled.

During that time they hired a large amount of Advanced Degree People.. Master’s and Phd’s.

Voila! Mission accomplished… no longer a target for a hostile take over.

Around 1985, I was asked to be part of group to identify, categorized and define, what it takes to be an entrepreneur….so that it could be replicated.

Why was I asked? Well I instigated (I guess you can use the word invent) and help introduce 4 new products in 4 years, that were commercial successes.

You see 3 M had an un written policy that you could spend 20 % of your time on your own idea’s… It helped create ownership and passion and the benefit for the company… products like “Post-it” notes.

One of the contributions that I made to this group back then was the observation that we had already left, the “Knowledge Society” and we were fast moving into what I called at the time was the “Creation Society”.

To make my point in front of several cross sector Vice Presidents, I made a slide that would address, the issue of the Educational impact on New Product Development.

The slide was like this, I don’t exactly remember the numbers for each of the category.

Company Education Cross Section v.s. Effect on Productivity (New Products)

Number Degree Productivity
? B.S. (Bull S**t)
? M.S. (More S**t)
? Phd (Piled Higher and Deeper)

Traditional Education is almost useless, until you can convert that knowledge into something of Value…… The true value of Education, in the truest sense is to “Draw Out” a “Creation”. As the British say… “You have to be able to earn a quid, on the streets”…. I am sure you have not missed the double innuendo conveyed by their reference to “On the streets”.
Which also can refer to being an Entrepreneur.

When we look at when and why the Current “Educational Structure” came into existence, we can have a better understanding as to its function…

For the most part our system was instituted during the early part of the “Industrial Society”. The world was moving from a “Agricultural Society” to on of Industry and the mass population, required “Standardized” skill sets to function in that form of society. The educational process helps provide structure, but it must not subplant the creative process. At that time the Industrial Society did not want creative people, they wanted "Human Robots".

This system has stayed in place for the most part since then. Unchanged.

Even though there is an obvious, mismatch in requirements for the society we are now living in, the Educational Process has pretty much stayed the same.

Fear is often a byproduct of change.. and the most unyielding group is our sources of Education.

I wrote the following article almost 10 years ago, and has been published it in several different forms.. This form was targeted towards the Sales Professional, but in reality it was put together as part of a “Pocket Guide for the Entrepreneur”

Feel free to download this article….

http://www.kjbarrett.com/Articles/12%20Faces%20of%20the%20New%20Millennium.pdf

Getting back to the original comments on Education…. I stand by my original statement. Education is of paramount importance.

Traditional Education…. However, may not be of value. As with any thing else, you have a successful product, when the product matches the needs of the market. When the Educational Process is matched to the current needs of the market, it serves a function.

3M and most all companies, still hire Undergraduate, Graduate, and advanced Degree people. Why? It still sells stocks and products, it is still good P.R.

They then Educate their employee’s to become Educators… Well at least my definition of Education…. To draw out creative idea’s, products and solutions that will have a positive impact on society.

Sorry Dean… I do believe that there should be an MBA in Entrepreneurship…. In fact an MBA, must be a study in Entrepreneurialship, but under the context of “Converting Knowledge” into something “Creative”.

This is enough for now… I will write something further later on when the correct question or topic comes up…..
In closing….

Gather Information.

Convert that information into Knowledge… meaning you know it… you understand it… to know and understand you must compare it to what you already know… and make sense of it.

Then USE that knowledge to “CREATE” something…. Anything….. of value…

Happy and a Prosperous New Year to all…. ALL Year Long……

Kevin Barrett
http://www.kjbarrett.com

Private Reply to Kevin Barrett

Dec 30, 2005 11:39 am

re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Kevin Barrett

P.S. "Don't throw the Baby out with the Bath water", meaning Don't throw education out just because the water is dirty or stagnant.

The process needs to be updated to our Society.

Does this sound like an opportunity for a "New Product"?....

I love Entreprenuerialship... there are an infinite amount of creative ideas abound... we are now exploring a creative idea related to Education.... I love it....

Private Reply to Kevin Barrett

Dec 30, 2005 12:08 pm

re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Russ Howard

Kevin,

I must say - DAMN! You are good!!!! That was an excellent article and I shall take it to heart immediately. I am also getting some of Corey Rudl's stuff to try and learn more.

Here's to a GREAT 2006 for all of us! And thank you for the article.

Russ Howard
Eagle Computer Technologies - Fort Worth, Texas
"Helping technology make sense to everyone"
russ.howard@eaglecomputertechnologies.com

Co-Leader - Ryze Home Page Helpers Network

Private Reply to Russ Howard

Dec 31, 2005 10:53 am

re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Traci Knoppe

A hearty amen from me too Dean! I'm highly educated, just lack the piece of paper telling me I am. ;-)

I heard once that if you read at least 20 books on any given topic, when you're through, you'll be an expert on that topic. Throw in related life experience and I'd say that's true.

I've debated for a long time whether I *needed* to get a web design degree. Such a thing didn't exist when I graduated high school 25 or so years ago. They didn't have the internet! I had children young, was a career mom and then when the internet came along, it opened up a whole world for me (and career!) that wasn't available before.

Ultimately what I decided is that web design is too fast pace a business to learn the very latest in a school setting. I'm betting those who are in web design classes right now at a university will most likely graduate with their heads packed full of outdated knowledge. Would you agree?

So I network, read boatloads of online articles, design books, blogs and newsgroups to keep up with the latest. Of course there's my six plus years of actual web design experience. So far, I've not had one single client ask me if I have a degree in web design.

My husband makes an awesome salary working at Daimler-Chrysler. Union wage, factory work. Not glamorous. But he makes more than many doctors, awesome benefits and he works right along side many men who have their MBA's and couldn't get a "real" job making a decent living, so they're working in the factory.

We're living the American dream. Part of that dream is the freedom and right to an education. Just because one chooses not to go to a university to obtain that education, doesn't mean one isn't educated.

Traci Knoppe
Titus 2 Web Studios
Skype ID: tknoppe

Private Reply to Traci Knoppe

Dec 31, 2005 11:33 am

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Robert Harrington

There are only two big fat flaws in your careful "you don't need an MBA to be successful," and that is the morphing of your argument that a higher education is not beneficial to getting good union jobs or making more money.

After the factory decides the awesome benefits are too awesome and closes down, who creates a new job for themselves at similar or better pay and benefits?
Normally it is not Mr. High School.

Higher education was never meant to be a trade school for Doctors, Lawyers etc.

Higher education (or more education) was designed from Roman Greek times forward as a way to fulfill, enjoy and lead a broader life.
Cheers
Robert

Private Reply to Robert Harrington

Dec 31, 2005 11:43 am

re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Traci Knoppe

[quote]After the factory decides the awesome benefits are too awesome and closes down, who creates a new job for themselves at similar or better pay and benefits? Normally it is not Mr. High School.[/quote]

True - guess this is where becoming an entrepreneur and starting your own business would come into play. ;-) I've known many a laid off factory worker who has done just that. Which I believe was Dean's original point of the thread; one doesn't need an MBA to be a successful entrepreneur.

[quote]Higher education (or more education) was designed from Roman Greek times forward as a way to fulfill, enjoy and lead a broader life.[/quote] Agreed! I just happen to believe that a higher education can be gained from sources other than a university with equally successful results, fulfillment and enjoyment. ;-)

Traci Knoppe
Titus 2 Web Studios
Skype ID: tknoppe

Private Reply to Traci Knoppe

Dec 31, 2005 11:56 am

re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Joy Levin

I have read this thread with much interest, and I am glad to hear that people have been able to follow their dreams without a higher education.

For me, however, my MBA was a great asset, not so much because of those three letters or what the advanced degree meant to employers (although it did carry a lot of weight in my field).

There are two aspects of the degree, or of higher ed, that have not been mentioned, and for me, those have been invaluable. First, I developed math anxiety in junior high school, and while I took advanced math in high school, my presence in the classroom was a joke. I was so anxious about the material and intimidated by it that I hardly learned a thing. When I decided to get my MBA, and I opened up my statistics textbook, I thought I was doomed. I was very blessed to have a wonderful professor, though, and math suddenly took on a new meaning for me - I realized how it could be applied to the real world. Never in a million years would I have gone into my profession (marketing research) without having had that experience. I realized I loved the application of math to marketing, and today I truly love what I do. So, one benefit is the doors it can open, which is a variation of what Robert says above.

Second, my MBA gave me the opportunity to meet some great people and have wonderful contacts. Could that have happened without the degree? Of course. But it wouldn't have been those exact same people, with the exact same experiences.

I will also mention that the experience of getting my MBA was just that - an experience. Just like any other "experience" people might have or use in their field or acquire along the way. And yes, the people I met, the conversations I had, the relationships I developed, and some of the skills and knowledge I acquired have paid for themselves many times over.

Of course, having an MBA is absolutely not necessary to succeed as an entrepreneur. But, like any experience in life, it can have hidden benefits that can enrich your life, broaden your horizons, open new doors, expand your skills and give you new direction. My MBA did all of those things for me. It allowed me to have a new dream and succeed at it. Perhaps some might think it's an expensive way to gain these attributes, but for me it was a great investment.

Joy

Private Reply to Joy Levin

Dec 31, 2005 1:11 pm

re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Dean H.

Let me clarify and comment further on a few things here.

To Kevin,
No need to apologize to me for disagreeing. I may the forum leader but you don't have to agree with me. Besides, the world would be boring if everyone thought like I did. I actually agree with many of your points.

To Kevin and everyone;

I've noticed that a few people *assumed* that my rant was about MBAs in general. They are not. I am referencing getting an MBA in entrepreneurship. If you are in VC or wish to move up in the corporate ladder, then an MBA is a great asset to have. Although, I still believe the ROI is very dismal. But we live in a world of titles.

Heck, I'd love to have an MBA myself just so I can be more snobby. Here is how a few conversations with me would go;

---Scneario 1---
Person A: So Dean, what do you do for a living?
Dean: Yeah, I got an MBA from Harvard.

--Scenario 2--
Person A: So Dean, what's for dinner?
Dean: Yeah, I got an MBA from Harvard.

--Scenario 3--
Person A: How was your weekend, Dean?
Dean: Who cares, I got an MBA from Harvard.

But I digress.

The success of our business lies primarily in education. How you choose to be educated is another story altogether. I never graduated Magna Cum Laude nor do I have any fancy scmancy titles. Although, I love my title of Chief Web Evangelist.

Some of us can hold a conversation with anyone on any type of topic. Be it marketing, finance, business intelligence, etc... And some of us still have a blank look on our face.

Some of us still suffer from status quo thinking. We worry about what others would think of us. We worry about failing all the time. Such worrisomeness [word?] prevents us from ever growing as business people.

As Kevin said, success is based on knowledge. Where you choose to get that knowledge is another story.

As Joy said;
>>>I will also mention that the experience of getting my MBA was just that - an experience. Just like any other "experience" people might have or use in their field or acquire along the way. And yes, the people I met, the conversations I had, the relationships I developed, and some of the skills and knowledge I acquired have paid for themselves many times over.

I know what you mean. The real experience to the MBA is the meeting of the minds with your fellow MBA peers.

But to me, I don't see value to paying so much $$$ for the relationships and conversations when I can get that elsewhere for alot less.

It's funny how this still goes back to the quote,
"Your success in life is based on the people you meet and the books you read."

D.

Private Reply to Dean H.

Dec 31, 2005 1:56 pm

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Lamar Morgan 707-709-8605

Dean,

That quote of yours is profound - "Your success in life is based on the people you meet and the books you read." To me, this speaks to the power available here on Ryze if folks would just tap into it.

Had it not been for my involvement here on Ryze, I would never have met some truly amazing folks (yourself included). One day I got an email from some guy online I did not even know. He suggested I check out a business networking site called Ryze. At the time I didn't even know what a business networking site was. But, I went and took a look. (Had I had been charged a fee just to look, I likely would have passed on the opportunity.)

Since I have been on Ryze, I have been able to connect with folks around the world. I mean I can actually boast to having friends in other states - even other countries - who I have never physically met. I have talked on the phone via Skype with many of them. I have actually had two Ryze friends attend a local mixer of mine, virtually. So, you see, the involvement with others on Ryze can be intense - even if not physically in-person.

My involvement with Ryze has resulted in my meeting some wonderful people in person as well - including B2B Networking's Althea Garner and Alf Nucifora, a nationally syndicated journalist for small business. (I have said it before on another network and I will say it again here, if you have never seen a car MADE out of silver or the house your gas money built, you need to go take a look at Mind Candy. It is truly amazing what is there.) I have also been able to turn some friends onto Ryze from my former home of Atlanta, GA - principal among them is Mike Adkinson, publisher of Georgia #1 technology magazine, TechLINKS.

I don't have an MBA, so I cannot speak to the difference having one can make in your life. But, I can honestly say that being involved on Ryze has made a difference in my life. It has even turned me onto some interesting books. What's particularly fascinating about that is the fact that the folks who wrote those books happen to be Ryze members. I don't think that is simply a coincidence. I think that is their design.

Lamar Morgan
CDMM
Power Networking

Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 707-709-8605

Dec 31, 2005 2:47 pm

re: re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Dean H.

>>>What's particularly fascinating about that is the fact that the folks who wrote those books happen to be Ryze members. I don't think that is simply a coincidence. I think that is their design.

Well said old chap. Success and networking is rarely due to happenstance. It's always by design :)

Private Reply to Dean H.

Dec 31, 2005 2:49 pm

re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

CK Aspinwall

Hear! Hear!

I think we have sufficiently euthanized the popular brag that one must matriculate in some college to get an education. Not so! Moreover, the most creative entreprenuers do not usually come out of college. Only a few colleges have recently gotten on the entreprenuer bandwagon. The typical situation is that our current Ed system is far too outdated and behind the times.

I have a webpage named the University of Ken. I am not just a professor. I am a practitioner.

Something Kevin said is worth repeating: "Now, comes the “Kicker”…. Education is “Everywhere” and in “Everything”….""

Kevin is right on the money. I'm with the lady from MI. We have everything but the sheep skin hanging on the wall.

We know what we know. Others know it when they see us walk it. There's nothing like walking into a room with total confidence that you are a worthwhile person in your own right.

People and books. That's the way to go.

Ken
http://www.frantomgroup.com/OurPowerForcedMatrix.php?UID=20249
[The above link is a way to learn and earn.]

Private Reply to CK Aspinwall

Jan 02, 2006 12:57 pm

re: re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Kevin Barrett

Well, The New Year has just begun…. (I prefer this to “New Years is over”)

The first statement really gets me excited when I say it…..

I will make some added comments on this thread…. As it is something I am very passionate about…..

But first some good things about my weekend…. I would like to share….

A Friend of mine had a few tickets to the Tampa Bay Buccaneer’s Conference Championship game with New Orleans yesterday and wanted to know if would join them….. “YESSSSS” and “THANK YOU”…. Were my replies….

Great Seats…. 35 yard line…. High enough to see everything and low enough to hear everything….. Tampa Bay won… Exciting Game….

Innocence is great…. Tampa Bay really should not be there…. But “When you don’t know, you don’t know” you just DO….. They have been making a lot of mistakes, but turning it around and doing great things….

I guess it accentuates the power of the opening statements…. The New Year has just begun…. Focus on what you want… not on what you don’t want….

On an early thread…. I spoke about… a come back victory Tampa Bay had earlier this year that got them going in the right direction. It was with a new, young quarter back Chris Simms… He never had a come from behind victory.. but in his mind he had done it may times…. When the opportunity presented itself… he just played out what he had mentally rehearsed in his mind… many times before…. Thoughts became action, and actions were manifested into results….

Some of you also know I am an avid basketball player… I say player because I am not a spectator… I love to play the game… In the off season some of the Buccaneer’s play basketball at our local YMCA, we have pick up game with 20 to 30 guys… All exceptionally good athletes and basketballers…

What’s this got to do with being an Entrepreneur or about having an MBA in Entrepreneurship?

Well, a lot……. It has to do…. With Attitude… and what information you choose to listen to…. And what you do with the information you get…. It is about “DISCERNMENT” How to make the correct choices….. and What to do and how to use Education…..

Chris Simms, the young quartherback for Tampa Bay, and I were on the same team many times, playing basketball…. We generally won, even though we played teams, that were on paper much stronger than we were….

The difference?

We had fun… we enjoyed ourselves and we worked as a team….

And we Won….. more importantly we learned things about ourselves, which we use to improve….

When you work as a team…. Great individual performance is turned into Heroic Performances…. Performances that inspire and change the Human Spirit in a positive manner….

How can playing Basketball at the YMCA, change the Human Spirit, towards greatness and Heroic Performances?..... Well…. It just does….. I really can’t explain it…. but, suffice to say…. That’s why many college, university and professional athletes come to the YMCA, to get a “Shot of that winning Spirit”…..

Chris Simms performance on the football field this year also has that spirit that moves through the rest of the team….. “They don’t know, that they don’t know” they should not be winning and they just keep on giving “Team Performances”….

This is a characteristic of an Entrepreneur…..

Do conventional MBA programs convey and “Draw out” this characteristic?

Well, at times yes…. Joy Levin… spoke of a unique EDUCATOR, that was able to “Draw Out” from her a characteristic that was latent, and in need of being nurtured…

Once realized, she has been transformed….

As I mentioned earlier, the process of obtaining an MBA, should be a process of becoming an Entrepreneur….

The key underlining ingredient that Joy Levin, spoke about in her post was…..

“Math suddenly took on a new meaning for me - I realized how it could be applied to the real world.”

Wow, how great is that?

I am a strong “Proponent’ of Higher Education….

I however, do not have a Master’s Degree…. Why?

I will explain…. As it may help provide some insights from my life long “Path” at becoming an Entrepreneur….. a “Path”, I might add I am still traveling and learning to BE…..

Early in my career, with 3M, I worked for a division, that had the worst possible quality, one could ever image….. Total in conflict with the name 3M…

But, 3M bought several companies in that technology sector….. they inherited a lot of badly run organizations…

Often just by putting the name 3M, things can be transformed… This was not the case with this technology sector…. It was a highly complex manufacturing process… with many critical Raw Materials…

3M, brought in a consultants, to help… one of the consultants… was Edwards Deming… Listening to him and his stories on the transformation of Japan… ignited a spark of excitement in me… maybe it was his “Bald Head”, the soul touching stories of his Japanese experience…. Or his insistence on team work and greatness…. Or just the idea, that when one human spirit is touched in the proper way…. Greatness can be accomplished….

I enrolled in a Masters in Statistics at R.I.T., and took every in house corporate course on Statistics….. There were over 50 immersion programs, in Quality Assurance, Design of Experiments, EVOP, Bayesian Theory etc…. I was able to take class room theories and integrate them in to daily practice on the manufacturing floor and the Transformation in our manufacturing process was….. nothing short of Miraculous…

Looking not at what can’t be done, but what can we do…… I guess from a view point of an innocent… and what was not supposed to be possible, became commonplace…

What we accomplished was truely a "Team Accomplishment", with many great individual and heroic efforts... but none as great as to what was accomplished....

I was then asked to transfer to Head Office and 3M research labs… Unfortunately, the University of Minnesota at that time did not have a Master’s in Statistics offered in the evening… I could not continue, my Master’s program….

Why? The professors did not what to work evenings….. I found that interesting…. And it planted a dormant seed… to bloom later…..

I was able to continue with RIT, even though they did not have a correspondence program…. My first professor…. Dr. Bonis…. Who was truly an Entrepreneur, and wanted to expand his Master’s program… he was more than willing to work with me through mail in’s to help me achieve the Master’s Degree… I wanted….

When I first asked Dr. Bonis, he responded with a 8 page response… Beginning with a quote, from Pascal….. saying he did not have time for short answers…. And outlining that R.I.T. really was not going to sanction, this request, but… since, it was his department…. He was going to do it…. “Education” he said, “must be established solely for the benefit of the student and not the professors”

I asked him if he would get in trouble for this… and he said don’t worry….. We are going to do things… and he then said…… remember…. “When you know you are right….. just Do It…. (Sounds Like Nike)… it is often easier to get forgiveness than to get permission… after it is done…. Educators then have to find a box to put it in…."

Then it’s DONE….”

I then transferred to Europe, and the distance became to great for us to continue….

So…. No Masters of Science in Statistics…

When I returned to the States, Dr. Bonis was no longer part of RIT…. I can say… he was a great man and a true Entrepreneur….

He also said…. “There is no sense, creating something that only you can do…. Teach others to do it”…. Interesting comment… and the subtext is profound…. In the past Entrepreneurs, were considered Loners… and had difficulty carrying their idea’s to perpetuity… this is changing….

I have read, by last count several years ago… 850 business related books… at an average price of around $42 each… they are in my library… $35,000 has been invested, plus seminars etc…. talk about life time learning…. I love it….

In the 90’s, I worked with several Smaller Universities and business colleges in Australia, teaching undergraduate business degree programs, I really loved and enjoyed working with students…. And I learned so much from them… I guess it was the Innocence of their questions, and the thirst of knowledge that had me dig deep into my information data base…

I was also guest lecturer at the University of New South Wales, for their graduate business programs Topic, how to tap into creative Business Soul-utions (Not misspelled)….

I could not become a regular Professor, because I did not have an Advanced Degree…..

I became the Director of Marketing for a company setting up Internet Education in Australia… Undergraduate, Graduate and Phd programs…. 95% over the Internet… revolutionary at the time…. Since I was also designing the programs for the Executive MBA program…. I decided to enroll for the MBA…. And I completed 70% of the program… in less than a year…

The program was disbanded…. Due to Government intervention… that is a long story, but it furthers underlines…. The “Psycho-sclerosis” prevalent in Educational Institutions.

Returning to the States… for family reason… I found that one of the avenues that I really enjoyed doing was closed, and that was lecturing at the different Universities and Colleges... Why was it closed?....

Well because….. I did not have an Advanced Business Degree….

So… again this year I will begin to complete my MBA….

Is that succumbing to the MAN?.... Not really….

It is my way of “Educating Myself”….. by “Drawing out” information from my information data base….

I have learned it is also a characteristic of an Entrepreneur.... Doing what needs to be done, to get things done....

Entrepreneurs do things that others won't do or what other's don't think are important.... to get what needs to be done done. I guess they do what needs to be done, WHEN it need to be done... even if it takes a life time to do....

Oh, Do I need a MBA to be an entrepreneur? k(NO)w….. Do I need a Phd to be an entrepreneur? k(NO)w…

Can I obtain more information from doing these programs that can assist me in being a better Entrepreneur?

Most emphatically, YES?

At the same time I will be nurturing a seed that was planted many years ago…. An Idea.. that I think, its time has finally come….

I will keep you all appraised of this Idea as it progress….

But it is in the truest sense “Entrepreneurial”….

I know I tend to write rather long postings at times… I guess it is in part due to the influence of Deming and Dr. Bonis…. No time for short answers….

And if you are going to take the time to say something… or write something…. Make it something that can have a positive impact on people…. Even, if it is only positively affects one person…. It is worth it….

Summarizing….

An Entrepreneur, is a “Team Leader”…. Able to extract great individual performances, into Heroic Performances… that releases the best of the Human Spirit…

An Entrepreneur is Educated…. They are in constant “Learning Mode”…. (Life Long Learning) they are:

“Aces of all Trades, and Masters of All” most of all they are “Masters of Life” and of themselves.

The true spirit of an Entrepreneur, is to uplift Humanity… not only with their creative ideas… but with their Values….

Does this sound “Idealistic”?..... Perhaps. My experience has been that when you are looking for the unique, quantum solution to a problem, the one solution that stands head and shoulders above all other solutions, you meet and find the “SOUL-ution”…..

And to me that is what being an Entrepreneur is all about….

The more you KNOW…. The More SOUL you know…. And the more SOUL-utions….

Joy…. Thank you for sharing your experience with your MBA…

In the common vernacular of our day…. “That’s what I’m talking about”…..

Kevin Barrett
http://www.kjbarrett.com

Private Reply to Kevin Barrett

Jan 03, 2006 5:00 pm

re: re: re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Jeffrey Henderson

I know a lot of people who went to college and now they're broke wondering how they are going to pay off their student loans. I didn't even graduate high school yet my first year on my own working I made over $50,000. I made $80,000 one year selling frozen meat door to door. Now I work with an internet marketing company even though I had no more knowledge of the internet than how to check my hotmail when I started here. Why did these guys hire me? Because I have a solid sales experience and I told them to hire me.

In some ways having that fancy piece of paper is a plus. It's great if you want to be a slave to corporate america. For those who are independent thinkers who have the entreprenurial mentality I think wasting 4+years going to college is nothing more than a set back. I'm glad I didn't go to school, I know that when I was 18 all I would have gotten out of it was blurred memories of frat parties. Instead I went into the trenches and learned how businesses work by doing business and I wouldn't trade the experiences I've had for anything.

Thank you for the time on the soap box, best wishes to everyone for the new year.

Jeffrey Henderson
Director of Marketing
ViP Search Engine Marketing
(877) 484-7736 ext.209
www.vipsem.com

Private Reply to Jeffrey Henderson

Jan 10, 2006 6:31 am

re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Marilyn Jenett

So, did the world's most successful entrepreneurs have MBAs? (in entrepreneurship or otherwise...is there such a thing as an MBA in entrepreneurship these days?)

Hmmm...I honestly don't recall the degree being mentioned in most stories.

I do recall bits and pieces of many interesting success stories, however. The man who founded Bank of America worked on the wharfs in San Francisco until he learned English.

One man's wife cut her finger in the kitchen and as he was getting the tape and gauze, he wondered why there couldn't be a product that had the tape and gauze together. His name was Johnson :-)

Elias Howe developed his idea for the sewing machine from a dream he had about cannibals carrying spears with holes in the end.

You know...stories like that.

Somehow I don't recall MBAs being mentioned.

And yet everyone is different. For one person, such a degree could be the catalyst to success. And well worth the investment of time and money. For another with a highly creative mind, it could be a waste of time. Hmmm...some women might feel it's a good way to find a future entrepreneur (husband) instead of becoming one :-)

I think the answer is that each must find his/her own path to become a successful entrepreneur - and that may include formal education or not. But if my memory is sound, I believe there is a high percentage of entrepreneurial success stories that were not borne out of MBAs of any kind.

Marilyn

Feel Free to Prosper Mini Workshop
on Abundant Living Network - Check It Out
Free Mini Prosperity Workshop

New Year Teleclass Tomorrow
Deatils Here

Private Reply to Marilyn Jenett

Jan 10, 2006 9:48 am

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Terry Vermeylen

In the book, “ The Millionaire Mind” millionaires themselves rated “attending a top college” #23 in importance.

There were 22 other more important factors to their success.

Being honest #1
Well disiplined #2
Get along with people #3
and so on..........

Two thirds of millionaires in this study were self-employed. And self-employed people make up less than 20 percent of the workers in America but account for two-thirds of the millionaires.

Terry

Private Reply to Terry Vermeylen

Jan 10, 2006 11:25 am

re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

>> Barry Caplan - Start Your Future Today

Terry -

How do they define "millionaire"?

One (admittedly fairly extreme) way to define it might be by expected lifetime earnings. If you do it that way, then someone who works 45 years at just over 20K per year (which is pretty low level work, about equivalent to serving coffee at Starbucks full time) will earn $1M in their lifetime.

If they mean a million in cash in the bank, well, it doesn't seem so wise to me, in general, to keep that much liquid cash on hand...

The truth is proabbly somewhere in between, but I am curious where...I am not aware of any standard definition....

Marilyn -

I agree an MBA is not necessary for anything formally. But then by the same argument, neither is any formal education at all.

Yes there are MBAs in Entrepreneurship, and some of those tend to focus on particular industries and industry groups.

The basics of entrepreneurship such as motivation and drive probably don't transfer well to the classroom - you either have it or you don't - but what you can learn on top of that, and the connections you can make in your chosen industry may in fact be very well worth the price.

I haven't seen any statistics lately, but I think most MBA programs, especially the top ones, tend to be weighted pretty heavily towards people returning to school after time in the workforce. In many cases, these returnees are already successful enterepreneurs by some if not all measures, yet they still see themselves at or approaching a plateau in their skills.

Best,

Barry

Private Reply to >> Barry Caplan - Start Your Future Today

Jan 10, 2006 12:10 pm

re: re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Lamar Morgan 707-709-8605

Dean,

I do not have an MBA. However, if I did have an MBA, I certianly would not knock the program. After all, I would have spent a lot of time, effort and money to achieve that prestigious distinction. The only thing better than an MBA is a PhD. One thing I have learned the hard way from those who have MBA's is that they can easily displace those who don't have an MBA in the corporate arena - despite a lack of company tenure. In fact, I was the victim of an MBA wanting my job. All he had to do basically was ask for it after flashing his MBA credentials. So, make no mistake, having an MBA does have its advantages - especially in the corporate world.

Lamar Morgan

Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 707-709-8605

Jan 10, 2006 2:20 pm

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Russ Howard

Very well put Marilyn.

Russ Howard
Eagle Computer Technologies - Fort Worth, Texas
"Helping technology make sense to everyone"
russ.howard@eaglecomputertechnologies.com

Co-Leader - Ryze Home Page Helpers Network

Private Reply to Russ Howard

Jan 10, 2006 2:53 pm

re: re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Terry Vermeylen

Barry

In this study of 638 millionaires, the average household had a net worth of $9.2 million. Median net worth was $4.3 million. The average is skewed upwards by respondents with high levels of wealth.

Interestingly the typical member of this group never spent more than $41,000 for a car.

For more info please read, The Millionaire Next Door or the Millionaire Mind

Lamar

I agree that having an MBA is an asset. No doubt. It opens doors.

I have high school. I have displaced MBAs. When our aerospace company embraced change I embraced it. Whether it was becoming a Buyer/Planner or learning new technology. When certain MBAs decided not to embrace change they were laid off. I was not.

I find that people who embrace technology and thrive on it, have a huge advantage in business. Today I improve business processes at a major pharmaceutical company using SAP (third largest IT company in the world). www.SAP.com I also have my Internet website. People pay me to help set their goals.

I even embrace RYZE now.

Terry

Founder

http://www.mylifechange.com

Private Reply to Terry Vermeylen

Jan 10, 2006 3:31 pm

re: re: re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

>> Barry Caplan - Start Your Future Today

Terry -

What are the biases of that study, statistical or otherwise?

Best,

Barry

PS - I have been interested in adapting the design guidelines of SAP applications for various non-SAP apps - is that something you are involved in or know of examples of?

Private Reply to >> Barry Caplan - Start Your Future Today

Jan 22, 2006 1:16 pm

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

CK Aspinwall

Leslie,

Your insights were right on. You wondered how people got their PhD and I propose this idea.

On any level, academics has been weighted heavily on the side of individual achievement. This, in my opinion, is the major flaw in common education. Little emphasis has been given to team skills, team building and consultative selling.

So, it is entirely possible for a lone wolf to be academically bright while a total flop in the people department. Those uneducated millionaires might not have an academic education, but they obviously have a millionaire's education.

There's a difference. A mere academic education does not prepare one to become a stellar business person. It might contribute, but that person has to have those other skills to become millionaires.

Ken
http://squidoo.com/music-academy

Private Reply to CK Aspinwall

Jan 22, 2006 3:22 pm

re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Leslie Freude SkinCareGirl

I'm reposting this...I think I was half asleep when I wrote this. So Ken your response to my post is before mine now:)
Blessings,
Leslie

I worked at a University for 18 years and our College of Business is one of the best schools in the US. Though it may be a top college the curriculum lacks BIG time in areas I feel that make a "educated" business owner.

Like Dean mentioned you can't teach entrepreneurship in the classroom, though colleges have it in their curriculum as an optional area of study. The MBA programs also lack areas of teamwork and interpersonal skills.

"Entrepreneurship education means many different things to educators...from primary schools to the university, from vocational education to an MBA. At each level of education, it is reasonable to expect different outcomes as students mature and build on previous knowledge. But the overall purpose remains to develop expertise as an entrepreneur."

Like Marilyn mentioned there are plenty millionaires that don't have MBAs or for that matter a college degree. What about Sam Walton of Wall-mart?

Most people do not fail because of a lack of education. History is filled with uneducated or poorly educated millionaires who didn’t let this supposed shortcoming hold them back.

Personally, working in a University setting you meet colleagues every day with degrees and you wonder how they got their Ph.D. degree.

Blessings, Leslie

Private Reply to Leslie Freude SkinCareGirl

Jan 23, 2006 5:25 am

re: re: re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Marilyn Jenett

Have two more comments to add to this discussion:

1. I had a surplus of several hundred beautiful presentation folders and matching envelopes from my previous life and wanted to find a home for them – a place where they could be put to good use. Someone recommended donating them to schools, so I researched the inner city schools in Los Angeles. When I called the first one – Crenshaw High – an administrator introduced me to a teacher who told me that he ran the "entrepreneur program" at the school.

Now remember that this is an inner city school – the students come from lower income and disadvantaged families. The average age in the program was 16 years. He told me that the kids started a business - a retrographics company – and to date have brought in half a million dollars (or maybe it was $1.5 million – I just recall the word "million").

I don’t have any more details. If you would like to check this out, call Crenshaw High School in Los Angeles and ask for Mr. Brown in that department.

Did I hear someone say that they still think an MBA in entrepreneurship is necessary? My recommendation? Save the tuition and hire the kids from Crenshaw High. :-)

2. I received several viral emails that contained links to trailers (and they are really first class) of The Secret – a worldwide television event premiering on February 15th I believe.

The promo claims that finally the secret of the world’s great entrepreneurs will be revealed to billions of people on the planet and will change everything. Current prosperity gurus are in the series (not me) and the buzz is that the secret relates to the Universal laws that were held in strictest confidence by history’s tycoons and will now be revealed to the masses.

Of course this now means that all of us can become successful entrepreneurs without even considering an MBA. We must be willing to watch a few hours of TV however. :-)

I haven’t received any "clues" lately from the production. Does anyone know what’s going on? Perhaps they need to discover some post production secrets of their own?

You can get the scoop and see the intriguing promo videos here: www.whatisthesecret.tv

Marilyn

A Ryze Record? Over 1200 Views and Climbing!
Free Prosperity Mini Workshop

New Year Teleclass Now Available as an Audio Program
Click Here for Details

Private Reply to Marilyn Jenett

Jan 26, 2006 4:26 pm

re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

Don Bell

I'm coming into this late, as I've been away from Ryze for a while, but from someone that has an MBA and PhD (and working on a second PhD now), I thought I'd step in and make some comments on Education and the need or lack of need for it.

To me, as a hiring manager, when I look at someones background and see that they have a BS/A I say, good, this person can stay with something for four to six or so years and complete a project. I tend not, initially, to look at what the degree was in.

If they have higher education in the from of a Masters (be it in business or otherwise) right after the BS/A that tells me that they can stay with a project for six to nine years.

At this point I look at them with less interest though, as they went and got a higher education with no, or potentially little, work experience in their industry (yes, I know some will have done Internships or summer jobs in their industry).

If they go directly into a PhD I walk away from them quickly. Again, no RL experience.

Now, is an MBA needed to become an entrepreneur? No, in fact, in many cases I think it can hinder the process. The person will tend to think "within the box" too much. Now, they should have some accounting classes behind them, some business management classes behind them, etc. But having an MBA may hinder them some.

Give me a person that has their BS/A, goes to work for two to five or so years, then goes and gets a Masters (in their industry, not in Business), with several business classes as well, and you will have given me a person that will do good as an entrepreneur.

From my experience, having a PhD is only good if you want to teach or get deeply involved in research. It has done me more harm than good most of the time.

Dr. Donald M. Bell

Private Reply to Don Bell

Jan 26, 2006 6:18 pm

re: re: Gimme a break: You don't need an MBA to succeed in entrepreneurship.

CK Aspinwall

Hiya!

I like what Don is saying, as it runs with my observations. There are some PhD's who cannot get work and I advised one to drop it from his resume.

Ken

Private Reply to CK Aspinwall

Feb 13, 2006 4:05 am

Greattt!!!

amanda tomasoa

There is hope for me yet!!!

*does a dance*

Thanks Dean!

* hug*

A

Private Reply to amanda tomasoa

Previous Topic | Next Topic

| Topics

Back to Refreshing Marketing

Support | FAQ | What's New | About Ryze
© Ryze Ltd. Ryze is a trademark of Ryze Ltd. Terms of Service, including the Privacy Policy