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Open source softwareViews: 2750
Mar 18, 2006 1:41 amOpen source software#

GiGi Gaggero
How does everyone feel about this?
gg

Private Reply to GiGi Gaggero

Mar 18, 2006 1:52 amre: Open source software#

Chris Janssen
I work with school districts working on their technology and we have a lot of schools in Illinois utilizing open source to save money. I personally use an open source firewall and email server. Just like everything else, it's not a solve all problems, but definitely has it's place.

Take care,
Chris

Private Reply to Chris Janssen

Mar 18, 2006 1:57 amre: Open source software#

Reg Charie

You are a busy guy (girl?) today gg.

Open source programs vary considerably in quality.
If you are considering using one, check their forums to see what kind of problems are encountered and what kind of support is offered.

My DCP site is done in CRELoaded which is open source.
CRE has a huge following and most questions are answered quickly.

I have a list of open source programs that I have personally used on my "Mostly Open Source" page.

 

Reg
DotCom-Productions Webmaster's Resource
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Private Reply to Reg Charie

Mar 18, 2006 3:08 amre: re: Open source software#

GiGi Gaggero
I know... I have been really active on MYOB today... I am slammed busy too, but seem to be more productive that way!

With all this great information.... and all of you are great resources.... I can't seem to stay away long!

Thanks again everyone !

gg ( Gayle , Girl) lol
Trying to post a pic at bottom of my Ryze page so ya' all can put a face with a name!

Private Reply to GiGi Gaggero

Mar 18, 2006 1:15 pmre: re: Open source software#

Denise O'Berry
GG --

There's a place and time for everything. The key with open source is to do your homework. I use DEW-NewPHPLinks - http://www.promopeddler.com/dew-newphplinks2/ for the Small Business Blog Directory at http://www.blogsforsmallbusiness.com It's worked great. There are some people who use the software just for links management, so it's pretty versatile. The only downside I see to open source is that often the learning curve is steep. Make sure there is a way for you to ask questions and get help from experts.

Other examples of open source that I use:

- Joomla http://www.joomla.org
- WordPress http://www.wordpress.org
- Thunderbird http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird/
- FireFox http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/

Can the rest of you add to this list?

Best regards,

Denise O'Berry
Network Leader

Get your daily dose of business tips at
http://www.justforsmallbusiness.com

Private Reply to Denise O'Berry

Mar 18, 2006 1:30 pmre: Open source software#

D Kai Wilson
I like them - and evangelise wherever possible - as long as its understood that they sometimes don't have great support and there's a *slight* inherent risk with them, I think they are great. There aren't open source solutions for everything, but 99% of stuff has an OS sollution :)

Kai

http://tearfreetech.com
http://read-my-book.com - Readers, and writers, connected!
http://10threvision.com - blog about selling that book in the company of others

Private Reply to D Kai Wilson

Mar 18, 2006 2:08 pmre: re: re: Open source software#

Lisa Boyd
Denise asked: Can the rest of you add to this list?

I can! I love open source software and find that men typically dominate this "field." However, most of the guys I've come in contact with are more than happy to help people (especially women) understand the software and be able to use it. I'm actually in the process of changing my blog structure to give people more non-techy information about open source software.

Here are my additions to Denise's list:

- OpenOffice: Microsoft Office replacement
http://www.openoffice.org

- Sunbird: Desktop Calendar
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird.html

- FreeMind: mind map software - very cool organizing tool!
http://freemind.sourceforge.net

- Filezilla: ftp software
http://filezilla.sourceforge.net

- HTML-Kit: web coding software
http://www.chami.com/html-kit

- ToDoList: to do list software, easily used for Getting Things Done mentality
http://www.codeproject.com/tools/ToDoList2.asp

- Juice: program for your computer to subscribe / manage subscriptions to Podcasts
http://juicereceiver.sourceforge.net/index.php

- EverNote: "Quickly create, organize and find any type of notes on an endless, digital roll of paper."
http://www.evernote.com/en/

I should also note there is a distinction in the "geek" world between Free Software and Open Source software. Open Source software means the developer makes the source code available for anyone to download and look at. Free Software is free for you to use but the developer may not make the source code available.

As a general computer user, this distinction between the two probably doesn't matter a whole lot - either way you don't have to pay for the software.

I'm with Denise, there's a place and time for everything! There is a lot of great Open Source software and Free Software out there, but you need to be careful -- there's also a lot of crud. Ask for recommendations for specific tasks (what are you looking to do?) and then check out the recommendations you get.

Hope this helps :)
Lisa B.
________________________________________________________

Lisa Boyd, Zeteo Solutions
http://www.zeteosolutions.com
Streamlined Solutions To Rev Up Your Coaching Business

Private Reply to Lisa Boyd

Mar 18, 2006 4:44 pmre: re: re: re: Open source software#

bellascribe
Others not listed here:

Moodle is absolutely fantastic. Having taught online since '96, I've been exposed to and used the usual -- commercial -- assortment of course management systems (Blackboard, etc). Moodle outperformed each. http://moodle.org/

Shopping cart software: Zen cart. http://www.zen-cart.com/

Project management: Phprojekt. http://www.phprojekt.com/

Private Reply to bellascribe

Mar 18, 2006 6:25 pmre: Open source software#

Ron Amundson
Downsides

1. Version control can be a royal pita. If you miss more than two or three upgrades, it is possible that support for doing so may have gone by the wayside. I learned this the hard way. This is especially the case if the underlying SQL database is changed during the upgrade. Automated upgrade tools may have long since passed. The key, is to remain on top of things, and never let more than a rev level or so pass.

2. Like always, run the upgrades offline to make sure they are stable first, before going live in a production environment. I too, learned this the hard way.

3. If you highly customized your application. Be warned that upgrades can require significiant rewrites to maintain the same custom functionality. In fact, it may well be that the core has changed enough, that some custom features are no longer practical to recode.

Upsides
1. If you don't like something, or their are bugs you can fix it... How many times I have wished that MS Office was OS. I seem to find many of the 7000 known bugs, and a few unknown bugs that make it problematic. With OS, the user can fix these things, find someone who has the same problem to fix them, or pay someone to fix them. To me, thats a huge plus. For example, an outlook crash may result in non-recoverably data. A thunderbird crash can be repaired. I have experienced both, and thunderbird wins big time.

2. You can customize features... If a software product is does 95% of what you need it to, its generally not too difficult to add the functions you want, bearing in mind, this can bite you later.

3. Third party support is huge and fast. As a Joomla fan, I find it amazing that one can often times get a custom coded solution in a flash... Something rarely seen in the world of proprietary software.

4. Independence and an anti-dilbert approach. The open source community is an independant lot. When Miro started to become too big for their britches , the community had a huge outcry... and Joomla was born, leaving mambo in the dust. This occured in a very short period of time. To me, its an example of self policing and correction within the open source community which could never happen in the world of proprietary software.

Misconceptions:
Open source is just that. It is not free as in beer eg MS Internet Explorere, and in fact some open source solutions and support options can be more expensive than proprietary software. The key is freedom, not necessarily free as in price, although the concepts can be closely related and huge misunderstandings are common.
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FreeAsInBeer

Ron

http://catsamazing-network.ryze.com/

Private Reply to Ron Amundson

Mar 18, 2006 8:07 pmre: Open source software#

Sue Elvins
I use OSS frequently and have not had any issues with it. The issue that I've found with it is watching what you download. There has been times when I hear others having an issue with it when the factor has been of the version originally downloaded - that is most of the cause.

I frequently visit Source Forge to see what the latest has been and must admit, I'm quite impressed to see the new items that have popped up. I'm all for it and give them a lot of credit for the work that has been put into it. I recall reading an article about open source software and how it's not "as good" as what's being sold on the market. I think differently; I have actually found a few of the applications that are better made and more user friendly - go figure!

I have to reply to the comment that was made about Moodle, I absolutely adore that application. I had installed in on a whim about six to eight months ago just as a test project to see what it could/couldn't do. I have to admit I was very impressed and it has improved my ability to train others in basic web languages and office administration skills.

There are small details here and there with versions but at the same time, consider the details that occur with the main stream of products on the market today; when Microsoft comes out with a product, 2 or 3 months later they have a bug pop up with an update to fix it - same concept here. The difference is, open source software is free, with MS you have to pay for it.

That's my take on the situation.

Sue

Private Reply to Sue Elvins

Mar 19, 2006 12:32 amre: re: Open source software#

Reg Charie

Ron said:
Misconceptions:
Open source is just that. It is not free as in beer eg MS Internet Explorere, and in fact some open source solutions and support options can be more expensive than proprietary software. The key is freedom, not necessarily free as in price, although the concepts can be closely related and huge misunderstandings are common.
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FreeAsInBeer

Ron, I have to disagree with you on this one.
The definition of "Open Source" as given in the link you provided is:
OpenSource is a style of software licensing and distribution, related to FreeSoftware (see also FreeSoftwareVsOpenSource).
The consumer of an open source program has the rights to do the following things to the source code:

  • read it
  • use it
  • modify it
  • distribute it
  • charge money for services related to it, such as copying or support, so long as they do not infringe on the freedoms of others


If you have the right to use the software without paying for it, then it is free.

As to the support options, I double dawg dare you to show me an example
.
A while ago a new client needed a shopping solution for his business when his promised system turned into 'vaporware'.
I spent a large amount of time to find something that would:
A.) Fit his not inconsiderable budget.
B.) Comply to his, also considerable, requirements.

Commercial solutions were found that met all but A.
An initial investment of $20,000 was about the minimum, and annual licensing drove this even higher.
Support was limited to the supplier's service and after a varying initial period was also added to the costs.

An open source solution was found that, with custom modifications to satisfy B, would run about $6000.
Once the system was modified, support could be supplied by any PHP/MySQL coder at a fraction of the cost of the proprietary systems. 

 

Reg
DotCom-Productions Commercial Web Design and Webmaster's Resource
MetaCryL - Business Promotion - FREE - 38 Days of eBooks.
0Grief - Zero Grief Hosting.
The Nothing Page - As it says, a place to do nothing.

Private Reply to Reg Charie

Mar 19, 2006 2:38 amre: re: re: Open source software#

GiGi Gaggero
Hey there.... there is no "double dawg daring" allowed! LOL

Private Reply to GiGi Gaggero

Mar 19, 2006 4:50 amre: Open source software double dawg dare response lol#

Ron Amundson
double dawg dare accepted, lol (and my example is only a hypothetical one, so I may loose)

haven't heard that one in a while, still lol

The whole concept of free vs freedom is a tough one, and we could easily derail the thread going down this path, so I think it best for each person to come up with their own philosophy of what open source vs free, vs free as in beer, vs free in a multitude of other ways. There is much divergence of opinion.

For many entities, an open source solution may well be all that they need, and in that case, no money may need to change hands. And it they are sharp, much of the support issues can be handled without any change of funds either.

For others, as you alluded too, mods may have some intial costs associated with them, and the ongoing support is of such a low level, than its really not a major factor.

Where I see the problem with OS is oppurtunity costs, especially in the larger applications. And this is more a function of the business management in and of itself than the software model they choose to use. The difference, is that in proprietary software, p&l costs hit you square in the face, and this usually brings oppurtunity costs into the mix as well. With open source, an additional level of abstraction can occur, and the total cost of ownership is easly buried. Its not all that different from the philosophy of maintaining legacy applications way beyond their intended lifespan until productivity losses become so obvious or the death of ancient hardware forces the issue. Otoh, this muddies the water, as its not really an open source issue, but a management one.

Not sure if I won the dare or not, but hopefully I explained my thought process a tad more clearly.

Ron

http://catsamazing-network.ryze.com/

Private Reply to Ron Amundson

Mar 19, 2006 5:44 pmre: Open source software#

Sue Elvins
I suppose what it all comes down to is the question..

Do you want to pay tons of money for a piece of software and pay for the support that may or may not help you (or be there for that matter)

OR

Do you want open source code so you can provide what you want/need plus avoid other obstacles along the way. (IE - major costs of software, costs of technical support, etc)
I would think IMHO that if a business owner has the capability to pick the source code apart and can improve on it without infringing on the original author's code that's fantastic and saves tons of money as well plus makes their client happy, it's a win-win situation.

Now what I have come across in some business owners are frustrations; those who have the ability to program and improve on current open source and those who do not. Are those that cannot handle the source code any lesser of a business owner? Absolutely not! That is not the case here whatsoever.

The important when it all comes down to brass and taxes is the question, did you do everything possible to make your client happy to the best of your ability? If the answer to that question is yes then you have done a fantastic job and exactly what your customer wanted - that is what owning a business is all about; to make your client be the most satisfied when the project is finished.

If a business is able to provide satisfactory work to their customers and give them what they want in an application that doesn't cost a lot of money, whether open source or market software, then you have done the best job anyone could ever humanly ask.

Just my little bit of commentary...

Private Reply to Sue Elvins

Mar 19, 2006 6:34 pmre: re: Open source software#

GiGi Gaggero
Sue writes:
"Now what I have come across in some business owners are frustrations; those who have the ability to program and improve on current open source and those who do not."


Well said Sue!

First of all, this is not a double dawg dare.. (* snicker *snicker, nudging Reg and Ron in the ribs! LOL)
Anyway..You described me perfectly... Frustrated, because I am a Culinarian and no~where near savvy on the computer..

(I even still need to look at the keys for gosh sakes)

Running my small business requires saving revenue in any form.. that's for sure! But "source code" and all that stuff... gezzzzzzz? I don't have a clue that that means let alone touching it!

I went to a few of those open source sites.. I'm getting it.. slow but sure.. I really don't want to change professions... *wink!

Now... if it was a fine Burre Blanc Sauce, or a Balsamic reduction for California Nouvelle dish?....Well, now that's a different story..

Have a great day everyone!
gg

Private Reply to GiGi Gaggero

Mar 19, 2006 7:44 pmre: Open source software#

Sue Elvins
Oh my now that sounds like something lovely for the palette, Ahem, back to the subject now. Anyway. ;-)

Here's an idea for you to consider when you have a moment of time.

Consider this:
- what would you like the application to do (payroll, etc)
- do you want something you can use offline or over the web (executable vs web script)
- what features would you like this application to have that will meet your needs/wants

It might sound like I'm asking a lot however, these types of things are very important to know before you can narrow down to a more reasonable definition of what you're looking for if that makes sense.

The other thing I highly suggest is to take your time in making the notes and don't rush it. You'll think of something and it's almost a guarantee you'll come up with something an hour or less later when you walk away or when you wake up the next morning. I've done that more frequently than I'd like to admit.

Hope this helps! Keep in touch and let us know how things go!

Sue

GG writes:

Now... if it was a fine Burre Blanc Sauce, or a Balsamic reduction for California Nouvelle dish?....Well, now that's a different story..

Private Reply to Sue Elvins

Mar 20, 2006 1:37 amre: re: Open source software#

Reg Charie

Sue said;
The important when it all comes down to brass and taxes is the question, did you do everything possible to make your client happy to the best of your ability? If the answer to that question is yes then you have done a fantastic job and exactly what your customer wanted - that is what owning a business is all about; to make your client be the most satisfied when the project is finished.

This is almost right.
Sometimes you have to do more than the customer wanted, if what they want will not achieve the desired results.
Remember that there are things you know, things you know you don't know, and things you don't know you don't know.

Too many times businesses just take your money and don't bother to warn or tell you about the last.

GG said;

But "source code" and all that stuff... gezzzzzzz? I don't have a clue that that means let alone touching it!

This, for the most part, is not rocket science. Dang, none of it is.
If you can figure out how to follow a recipe you can come to terms with the basics of code in a fairly short time.
"Source" just means the way your browser. or the search engines look at the webpage.
Source is just straight text with little instructions to tell the browser how to display the page.
For HTML the instructions are put inside "Tags". When you look at the page's source code, the tags are inside < and > brackets. Each tag is in pairs with opening and closing tags.

PHP is similar but more complex as the browser does more work to build a page.

If the program or system you are using is a good one, you will never need to look at the source, but it does help to have a, (very) basic understanding if you want to put some "pizzazz" into your communications.

The Ryze forums use a text window that you use to type your message.
A link written in here shows as text only when the post is viewed.

Now look at my link below. You can click on the Commercial Web Design and Webmaster's Resource
This means the search engines like it more, and posts actually generate more page rank for your site. It is also easier for readers to click on something than to 1 - highlight, 2 - copy, and 3 - paste, then 4 - hit go or enter. Never put your visitors more than 3 clicks away rule, remember?

Type your post in your web design program, switch to code view, copy and paste into the Ryze box and Bob's yer Uncle.
If you have a reasonable web design program you also get a spell checker. (momething i really sneed as i ma lousy typist.)

Reg
DotCom-Productions Commercial Web Design and Webmaster's Resource
MetaCryL - Business Promotion - FREE - 38 Days of eBooks.
0Grief - Zero Grief Hosting.
The Nothing Page - As it says, a place to do nothing.

Private Reply to Reg Charie

Mar 23, 2006 9:00 pmre: re: re: Open source software#

bellascribe
Someone may find this interesting.

Father of Wiki Speaks Out on Community and Collaborative Development

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1939982,00.asp

From the story:

Cunningham, who is director of committer community development at the Eclipse Foundation, said open-source software will continue to grow and thrive because it enables user innovation. ...

"I'm betting on open source being a big trend," Cunningham said, chuckling at his understatement. "And it's not just because of cost, but because of end-user innovation. No end user wants to be a programmer; they just want to get their jobs done," he said. But more and more people with powerful tools and powerful languages will be able to work together to build better systems, he said.

"I think of software being a work—very much like a wiki being a work—where people see an area that's weak and they make it stronger," Cunningham said.

Private Reply to bellascribe

Mar 27, 2006 10:32 pmre: Open source software#

Jason Anders
hi Folks -

The Open Source software movement has had a tremendous impact on the software industry in the last 10 years - and has seriously undercut the power that many companies preivouosly held.

Many large businesses ARE using open source software somewhere in their internal software systems, for a variety of reasons:
* lower-cost -- typically zero cost for the product, and reduced cost for support
* no vendor lock-in
* often higher quality than commercial software

Smaller companies are adopting open-source software as well -- many of them without knowing it. For example, this website (Ryze) is implemented in PHP, which is an open-source programming language suited to website development.

As someone who's worked in the software industry for a long time, I've used, competed against, and contributed to open-source software packages.

The value of open source to you, GG, as a non-technical business owner, is clearly NOT the ability to view, modify, or store the product's source code. But, your technology providers can benefit from this - so you indirectly benefit.

Hope this helps!
Jason

Jason Anders
Sunflower Network
http://www.sunflowernetwork.com
Friendly help for your computer problems. Instantly.

Private Reply to Jason Anders

Mar 28, 2006 1:17 amre: re: Open source software#

Reg Charie

Hi,

I should have been less "techno" when I responded to GG.

A good open source content management need not be complex to use.
CRELoaded is a good example.
All you have to know is how to read and type.
All new product and page info is done in straight text.
No knowledge of code is needed.

Reg
DotCom-Productions NEW Blog "In the life of a webmaster".  My Commercial Web Design and Webmaster's Resource
MetaCryL - Business Promotion - FREE - 38 Days of eBooks.
0Grief - Zero Grief Hosting.
The Nothing Page - As it says, a place to do nothing.

Private Reply to Reg Charie

Sep 06, 2006 11:25 amre: Open source software#

Camillus Thomas
GG,

Open Source software is one of the best things that happened in the IT industry. I have used some of the products, such as OpenOffice, (similar to Microsoft Office)-will work with any document produced using Microsoft Office, and found them to be cost savings and worked just as well, or maybe better. I also use firefox as one of my browsers.


Thanks,

Thomas
http://glbmarket.ld.net
http://glbmarket.cognigen.org

Private Reply to Camillus Thomas

Sep 08, 2006 3:21 amre: re: Open source software#

Kevin Mular
Gigi,

Open Source Software can be a good or evil. Like others I speak from that which I have used, and my favorite open source software is OpenOffice. http://www.openoffice.org/

They offer a FREE full featured Office Suite (Presentation, Spreadsheets, Word Processing, etc), it is free to download, use, and distribute, with an incredibly active community.

We have a preference for OpenOffice, possibly because of my wife's employment, but I feel the products are great, they will read most traditional office products, and as a new business, the price is really awesome for the value.

Kevin
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kmular
http://hfcareernetwork.com

Private Reply to Kevin Mular

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