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Private Reply to Hasmukh Gandhi

Aug 22, 2006 2:21 pm

re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Hasmukh Gandhi

And for successful determination we must determine beforehand as to what we must determine in order to be successful...and ultimate success ratio determines whether whatever we have determined was worth determining in first place.

Aug 22, 2006 2:39 pm

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Sandip Kundu

Your determination will cause termination of the thread

Private Reply to Hasmukh Gandhi

Aug 22, 2006 3:05 pm

re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Hasmukh Gandhi

It will all depend on the collective determination....!!!

Aug 22, 2006 4:27 pm

re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

...the right to do something does not mean that doing it is right...

supported!!!

:))
:)

Private Reply to ...the right to do something does not mean that doing it is right...

Aug 22, 2006 5:29 pm

re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

N Iyer

Can't people stop fooling around about serious issues please?

Either you support the petition or don't, there's no room for foolery on matters like these!

Private Reply to N Iyer

Aug 23, 2006 4:50 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Amita

And why would you feel that those who are fooling around here do not have strong views about the petition...

the nature of the expression does not detract from the intensity of the feeling about an issue, i should think...

Private Reply to Amita

Aug 23, 2006 5:07 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

jvyas

Yes Amita...I agree with you....our determination to fool does not dilute our determination for other causes...

How about a seperate thread for sex determination post birth :p

Private Reply to jvyas

Aug 23, 2006 5:08 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

x M

Does number of signatories on a petition anyway reflect in the action taken by government - ie does it work like more the number of signatures sooner/stronger the response from government?
Random ponderings...

Private Reply to x M

Aug 23, 2006 7:56 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

N Iyer

If only the fooling around is evident here, then how does one see the underlying seriousness? We have enough threads on fufa for the jokes. It would be nice if the jokes stick to those...

Private Reply to N Iyer

Aug 24, 2006 4:46 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

FuFaji Lalit Vashishta

Thankyou Kamayani for starting this.

And thankyou Nandita for re-inforcing the idea of serious threads.

regards
Lalit

Aug 24, 2006 5:08 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Rhea

I agree with you Nandita...there are enough threads and posts for fun and laughter.
If you don't have anything relevant to say regarding the topic under discussion, don't say anything. But don't belittle the topic and the people who take it seriously, by making fun of it. If your defence is that you too have a serious opinion about the topic, then why not express that serious opinion instead of just being terminally funny.
Try not to disrespect others' opinions in your endless pursuit of 'fun'.

Private Reply to Rhea

Aug 24, 2006 7:43 am

Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

1. Never let the fun go out of your system, even when you are very serious. No one wants to be near a 'RamgaRurer Chhana'.

2. It is the tomfoolery (not foolery) that has kept this thread alive, else it would have been submerged into oblivion by now. Kamayani understands this and so is silent on this issue.

3. A more serious question to ponder, do these online petitions serve any purpose at all? If not, these should be treated as spam, isn't it?

4. FuFa = FUlly FAltoo. That is the purpose of this network. Alas, sometimes even Lalit tends to forget this!

Cheers!

Aug 24, 2006 9:40 am

re: Stop Sex Determination

FuFaji Lalit Vashishta

BasabDa
1. I refuse to accept your statement "Never let the fun go out of your system, even when you are very serious. " When we are discussing foeticide and sex determination - it is not a matter of joke - it is about killing and death we are talking. Atleast my parents have taught me -"har cheez ke liye ek jagah hoti hai" There is a place for everything in,life.

2. Basabda you have brought up serious threads to the TOP in the past - but not by making a mockery of them, but on a serious note. I expect the same from you for all serious issues. I am not saying you are mocking this one either, but please do not encourage the same as well.

3. Online petitions matter or not has to be judged from the statistics - will like someone to answer this one. But I know for sure it worked for Jessica Lal case- it worked for the Baazi dot com case, and these surely contribute to the final deicsions some way or the other.

4. Please read what is written above and how the name Fully faaltoo came about. "Na bhoolein hum kuch, na bhoolenge aap yeh swaad"

Lage Raho
FuFaji

Aug 24, 2006 5:57 pm

re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

Lalit, on a serious note, what is this petition about? Sex determination tests have already been declared illegal quite some time back, but it still continues. It continues because of the mindset of OUR society which demands dowry from the bride's family, who indulge in bride burning, our age old system of the male child carrying the 'bansh' forward. If one wants to stop sex determination tests, then fight for changing our male oriented traditions. Only then things will change.

Before the advent of the sex determination tests, there used to be female infanticides, now there is female foeticide. If the clamp down on sex determination tests become successful, then the female infanticide rate will again skyrocket. The net result will not change unless we change our traditions.

If you want to petition, petition for changing our traditions. A desease can be cured only if it is removed at the root, not by just suppressing it.

Now, lighten up. No one was mocking the content of the thread. But I definitely feel it is short sighted and immature (in all seriousness).

Cheers!

Aug 24, 2006 6:06 pm

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

Basab and Lalit - just chill - imagine how cool the scene is - - - - women who are born and alive love life so much that they want the unborn women to go ahead and get born - - - - is it not a great vote and tribute for how decently men treat them that they enjoy being born and want more to be born?

Men Rock! ask any woman!

Aug 24, 2006 8:39 pm

re: Stop Sex Determination

FuFaji Lalit Vashishta

Thankyou for your mesage Basab. Well said. I can always trust you for your words of wisdom.

Soeb Ji, I do not know if men rock or not, and do men really need an approval from the women around for that. We will discuss this on another thread.

Coming back to the topic, I am a father of two lovely daughters. And never did I have a thought about such issues the way it is being projected.

The world is changing.

I go to my village every year - in HP in India - and beleive me this thought does not cross the mind of any family there. I talk to so many, and actually coax them to speak against these topics. But no one does. A child - male or female - does not matter to them.

With no offence meant to people from respective states it is the patriarchal values that have undermined the status of women in some states, and I think it is the states of Rajasthan, Haryana, and maybe parts of Bihar and UP predominantly patriarchal societies.

Soemone has rightly said "What we are up against is a deeply ingrained patriarchal attitude to which even the medical profession and the women, who in spite of being the victims, unthinkingly subscribe to"

So how do we fight this Basabda

Not by keeping quiet

* By setting examples
* By voicing our opinions
* By letting that part of the world know that - other parts of the world have progressed beyond.

And please read the petition and find out for yourself who the culprit is.

Do you know who is responsible? Or let me ask you to make a guess. .... give up. OK, read the petition or read on....

The Doctors of this country. Let us think and ask this basic question, who conducts these tests - Ultra-sound. Did you know that obstetricians invest in mobile vans, equipped with ultra-sound equipment, that are driven into remote agricultural villages where the preference for male offspring runs high. What drives them there, MONEY - sorry Easy Money - Doctors the main culprits.

Teach the Doctors who go on strike for reservations ( I am with them on that issue today) also to progress and live for the rights of a girl child to LIVE

I will only make a call to the Doctors in this country - they are considered GOD by the villagers, and they are the best people to convey these messages - and they should start living upto their reputation and not living for their pockets

Coming to the petition online - it is just another way of voicing an opinion, and statistics show that it hardly reaches an average 0.5 - 3 % of the targetted audience.
Soemthing is better than saying NOTHING - Do your BIT
or walk the talk as Soeb says always, and move to the countryside (if you are willing) to convey this message one-to-one

Let the discussion continue.......

Aug 24, 2006 9:29 pm

re: re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

i have read each and every post, even re-reading some of them. Basab Ghosh, your views were very articulate and i support them whole heartedly.

our statistics are shocking with the number of our men out-beating the women to a shocking 5:1 (or is it more?) is it any wonder there are so many other issues related to women, victimizing them.

women seem to be taken lightly from conception. THAT NEEDS TO STOP. like Basabji says, kill it at the root. however, let us note that 90% of all foeticides occur in rural India.

Lalitji, i beg to differ. doctors are just servicing a need. a need created by deeper, darker issues. in remote villages, most farmers are poor, landless labourers. the landlords encourage the poverty. in a nutshell, in those areas, men would earn more money than women. is it any wonder why sex determination occurs there?

ask yourselves this - what would you do in a situation where you didnt know how many rupees you would get in the day to feed your family? i know how it is for i have relatives working in Gujarat for landless labourers. i know first hand how much resistance the landlords exerted the minute the landless labourers were eudcated on how to pay off their debts.

we need to focus on where the issue lies. its not in 'sex determination' but more in rehabiliting extremely poor people. these are our people. we are part of them. the Govt. should do something to uplift them. but that will never happen. the landlords line the pockets of some minister and the 'lining' goes on...

in the same way, this thread can go on and on, each post more passionate than the next.

words are easy to come by.

Aug 25, 2006 2:09 am

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Rhea

'is it not a great vote and tribute for how decently men treat them that they enjoy being born and want more to be born?

Men Rock! ask any woman!'

Soeb,
I have known you online for quite a while now, and I must say I have gathered a lot of respect for you. You've been a mine of information and have had mature views on most things. You are older than me by quite a few years and wiser, I would guess.
I feel sad and ashamed to know you when you make statements like this one.....if his was another attempt at being light hearted or funny, well it didn't work. Atleast not with me.

Private Reply to Rhea

Aug 25, 2006 2:18 am

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

FuFaji Lalit Vashishta

Anisha

I beg to differ also,
Need is a very relative term.
You are suggesting an educated doctor goes and fulfils the need of the society, by doing something illegal.
What is the difference between them and a thief who steals because of his "need" for food and money?

I agree that there is an issue, and what are we planning to do about it? Are you also suggesting like BasabDA - NO petition, No discussions. Keep silent. And let the areas in discussion burn. No one should raise their voice. Let them go on with their killing.

Anisha ji, atleast let us keep saying the words which are easy to come. Maybe someone - someplace will think about it. The passion shown in words by a few can become a weapon by someone. Our Indian history has been witness to many such incidents.

And lastly, I know for sure that this is also going to be the main issue for me. Also because I run my set-up from Jaipur now. I will surely keep writing on this thread and informing the members about the various interviews I do with my artisans in Rajasthan, while discussing this issue

Lage Raho

Aug 25, 2006 3:10 am

re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

more on this at a later point Rhea . . . . . right now Lalit has managed to get this discussion where it should be . . . .

Private Reply to Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Aug 25, 2006 4:26 am

re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

WEll

I thought the thread would die u all fufas have kept it alive.tHANX FUFAJI FOR GETTING IT on track too :-)))

on few quereis

do these petitons make a difference...is asking like does voting has nay erelvence in todays corrupt polititcal sysytem

so do we just watch and sit by....irrespective fo results the fact remains arising our vocie against atrociteis of any kind do make an impact how little it may be

regading the root cause.. definitely one has to target teh root caouse- SON PREFERNCE- PATRAIRACHAL BAGGAGE. yes but that is not the only stragegy to eb adopetd it ahs to be multi pronged and because sex detremination si ranmpant due to unethical pratice by the doctors they ahve to be made acciuntable and guilty need to be punished.

another MYTH is that it happens in rural areas not all the census 2001 cleraly indiactes it is mroerwampnat amonge ductaed and urban araes in mumbai it is 815 females or 1000 boys in malabar hill area. teh fact where vere the technology is easily accessible the child sex ratio ahs gone down. EDUCATION has notthing to do with the son rpefrence cross cuts all classes, castes.

Thnnaks to al have supported the petition and to all those who are thinkling of it :-)))))

JAI FUFA !!!

Aug 25, 2006 5:26 am

Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

Kamayani, kamayani, when will you learn to let your fingers run at the same speed as your thoughts? :)

Lalit, dwell a little more on what Anisha has said. She is putting the finger on one of the root causes in rural India. You may manage to stop these mobile sex determination centres from plying their trade in rural India, but that won't stop killing of the girl child, born or unborn. The answer lies in changing the lifestyle in poverty stricken rural India, in making the women earning and contributing members of the family, of breaking age old traditions that keep the girl child uneducated and tied to the 'chulha' at home. The answer lies in spreading education, health care and sustainable income in rural India. Let's work concertedly for eradicating the root cause.

Cheers!

Aug 25, 2006 5:38 am

re: Stop Sex Determination

FuFaji Lalit Vashishta

I agree

Aug 25, 2006 6:40 am

re: Stop Sex Determination

sathya says .. ....

*ahem*
first things first...

HI kamyani, do you seriously believe that this online petition, on this particular issue, would help you /the nation resolve a problem?? i would say no a big N.O
instead educating people would help....
education people on how a gal child is as equal as a boy is... to that part of the society, which feels a gal child is a burden
I wouldnt say that you find these type of people who advocate female infanticide, only in the rural areas or poverty stricken vilages, but also in a affulent society we live in.

instead , if you adopt a village and help them educate, am sure all of us fufaties would help you in the cause...

unlike the jessica lal case this petition would be of no use to you or your awarness programme.

2nd things 2nd:
its nice to see that you are trying to protect the unborn child.
But what aboout who are born and are suffering.. have you got a petition for them??

a week back i saw in the news that a gal child was sold at rs1.25 paise i repeat.. YEAH.. FRIGGING one rupee and twenty five paise...
how many of the wimmens association came forward to help that family or the child... TILL DATE.. NONE..

day before yesterday, a man aged 70+ married a minor....
how many of you wimmens association came forward with a petition and help her give a new lease of life.. NO ONE...
TILL DATE.. NONE...

we all know about the Rakhi sawant episode.
thanks to all the "special and the first hand report" in the news channels we know about her obscene videos and fotos...
a few days after that she reached mahila ayojan ( or watever) when some bloke called mitto kissed her.. forcibly...
the reply given by that lady representing the mahila ayog wa shocking
" she deserves to be treated this way, coz of the way she makes those vides"
When we have such mahila ayojags with a mentality that prostitues cannot cry rape, i dont think many would take these petition serioulsy...

3rd thing 3rd:P

HI kamyani and lalit and those all who think taht soeb , amita and basab, just becoz they made light hearted statements on the issue, doesnt work /think aboiut these issues.
may be kamyani if you sit across table with soeb, basab and amita, you might have better ideas/solutions/view on this issue.. better than what you have, to eradicate ( i think this is the right word) sex determination.

this petition would not help you stop sex determination in anyway.....

and hey kamyani...
have you ever visited kamathipura to find out how many minors are there in the industry..
how many abortions are made ( female or male foeticide)..
have you ever tried to make a petition on behalf of them,...
have you ever tried to help those minors get out of the messy situation they are in...
have you ever tried to educte those prostitutes on awarness about sexually transmitted diseases??

this is not a authoritative question

am juss curious....

i would say, if you want curb this menance of sexual determination... adopt a village ( anywhere in india)i wold help you and am sure other fufaites would also come forward...

pls dont underestiamte people with light sense of humour....
and stop branding people for wat they are...

live love laugh

Aug 25, 2006 7:31 am

re: re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

one of us cant make a difference...but all of us, as one, can.

Aug 25, 2006 7:41 am

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

FuFaji Lalit Vashishta

Very true Anisha

More thoughts on how?

Aug 25, 2006 7:53 am

re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

sathya says .. ....

Let FuFa Start a campaign.. one village at a time...:) educating people....

Aug 25, 2006 7:58 am

re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

satya, i wanted to ask more info on how to go about adopting a village. i am more accustomed to 'adopt a child' concept. can we collectivly do something? i'm sure there are a lot of passionate people who want to do something, but know that singularly cant.

Lalitji, please lets start this.

Aug 25, 2006 8:01 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

i apologise for my error. Sathya, i got a little too engrossed in typing and misspelled your name. a thousand apologies.

Aug 25, 2006 8:06 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

sathya says .. ....

Ask kamyani anisha, ask her to chose a village, she wants to educate, contact the pachanyat and get proper approval..

some people are in the ad industry
some in the printing indiustry who can print phmaplets
rest can help thru money...:)
and people closest to the village would volunteer after the permission is granted:)....

Aug 25, 2006 8:27 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

WHO is kamyani???

i presume she's on this thread.

kamyani, can you please help?

Aug 25, 2006 9:52 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

sathya says .. ....

heheheh :P @ whos kamyani *sigh*
frankly speaking anisha, even for her this is not a easy job.
making people aware that a gal child is as important as a boy child... is easy... but asking to adopt the idea is difficut..
they wud say yes to u.. and u wudnt know wat they do behind ur back.....
state of economy would force them to ignore..u...
well as far as iam concerned...
in our house we educate the maid.. and recently maids daughter gave birth to a lovely girl...
we encouraged her and for the first year we are giving 150 per month for baby food and other stuff...
this is wat i have personally achieved...
to be frank enough , it is difficult for even the government to have a control on this...

Private Reply to Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Aug 26, 2006 6:56 am

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Anisha, here is kamayani

this is one topic i live for and can even get out of my grave, whenvere i am there :-)

having ideas is great we all have one, but more important is implementation of the ideas.

adotinga village is good, but once again i SAY IT IS NTO A RURAL PROBLEM AT ALL, I would say in mumbai or wherever they are

FUFAS van help me monitor their areas where ever they are staying. if you can just 3 thinsg in Genetic Counseling Centre, Genetic Laboratory, Genetic Clinic, Ultrasound Clinic and Imaging Centre

1. it should be written that sex determination is banned

2. regsitration certificate of the nursing home

3.copy of the PCPNDT ACT
for information on law
http://mohfw.nic.in/titlepage.htm

and if anyone of you know that a doctor is doing it please inform me, your complaint will be takne anonymously, you will not be dragged into litigation or court and i will take up the case and investigation.

also if you come across nay advertisemnt in any form talking about sex selection services do let me know

this is a smallw ay to start thru fufa but i am sure it will have a huge impact.

cheers !!

kamayani

Aug 26, 2006 1:50 pm

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

sathya says .. ....

*noted*

Aug 26, 2006 4:13 pm

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

impact karega . . . . .

Aug 26, 2006 4:17 pm

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Sandip Kundu

What is "FUFAS van"?

Ok..must be FUFAs can...

Aug 26, 2006 5:43 pm

re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

thanks for the update kamayani.

Aug 26, 2006 7:08 pm

Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

Kammo darling, let us educate who know not (e.g. villagers). Screw the urban gyan papis. If you find them kick their b***s out through their mouths.

Cheers!

Aug 26, 2006 7:14 pm

re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

am with you on this Basabji!

Aug 27, 2006 3:46 am

re: re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

be specific and tell me what exactly in Basab's post is so agreeable please?

Aug 27, 2006 4:40 am

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

anisha@work from home.com

"let us educate who know not"

i.e. rural areas.

Aug 27, 2006 4:50 am

re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Sandip Kundu

And the second part?

Aug 27, 2006 5:07 am

Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

Are you feeling threatened by the second part?

Aug 27, 2006 5:20 am

re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

Tsk Tsk! Eschew violence Basab!

Aug 27, 2006 5:38 am

re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Sandip Kundu

Can't blame me for feeling worried at least, after seeing your state when the second part was done to you...

Aug 27, 2006 5:50 am

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

do unto others as you would have the romans do unto you as you would do when in rome as the romans do - now please focus on the subject of this thread . . . . bttt

Aug 27, 2006 5:57 am

re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Sandip Kundu

In Rome, do as the Romeos do...

Yeah, agree, now Back To The Thread...

Private Reply to Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Aug 27, 2006 11:48 am

re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

bas-abb me quite surprised that u think people in rural ares need to be educated , i will differ with you here the fact is sometiesm if you go to villages and meet people teh so called illiterate they are much intelligent and smart than any graduate or mba from any city.

WhY FU---FA'SSSS getting away with their responsibilities,w e are living in urban areas why not start at home ?

with all that FU-FAAAA......enthu ideas when the time si to work...all that gyan for rural areas, is ayw e start where we ar eliving and then we will atke care of rural areas

make impact HERE AND NOW !!!!

Aug 27, 2006 7:05 pm

Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

Kammo, if the villagers were as intelligent as you are suggesting, then they would be more prosperous than us urban folks and there would not be a case of constant migration to cities. If they were so intelligent, then they would be more forward thinking than the urbanites and there would be no female infanticides and honour killings in the villages, there would not be superstitions and hankering for a male offspring.

But, that is not the case, is it?

Aug 27, 2006 11:27 pm

re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

Basab - villagers are more intelligent and that is why we have the government we deserve . . . . if you create a ministry for female feticide and make Lalooji head it the problem will be solved easily . . . . .

Aug 28, 2006 11:07 am

re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

However deprecating we may be about Lalooprasad, as a railway minister he has completely turned around a loss making company into a profit making one. He has improved the conditions of the passenger coaches (at least on Rajdhanis) and the on rail services.

It is another matter that his followers are now buying tickets for travelling by rail. :)

Private Reply to Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Aug 28, 2006 5:54 pm

re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

The topic is DE-RAILED

caN we come back on track

so hwio many fuafs are comingf orwrad to make an IMPACT

it just involves survey of pathological labs in your area which ahve ultarsound facilities

we ave talked a lot on issue

now LET US ACT !!!

Aug 28, 2006 6:05 pm

re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

SOEB FATEHI

i have seen three polyclinics in my area regularly displaying that it is illegal to conduct such tests and all that . . . . i can check out others if you require . . .

Private Reply to Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Aug 29, 2006 1:31 pm

re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

bade fufa ji

besides they having a board saying its illegal

pl also see

they have a registration certificate displayed, which should mentieond ultarsound machiens they possess.

and a copy of the pcpndt act

please do check others and send me details as in the address of the pathological centre you checked upon by email

hope others also follow you :-)

Sep 06, 2006 12:29 pm

re: re: re: re: re: re: Stop Sex Determination

Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Gandhigiri..lage raho :-)))

Private Reply to Indian Gypsy..zip zap zooming ;-))))

Sep 07, 2006 4:49 pm

Stop Sex Determination

Basab Ghosh

Ab Belgium mein kaunsa petition leke gaye ho? Koi street demonstration hai kya? :D