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| Mar 16, 2010 9:06 am |
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re: re: Economic Capture - Money Power in the World |
James Booth
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Mr. Stone's depiction I thought summed up our current monetary system well, and I particularly appreciated his use of "usury" in place of interest.
Early Christianity considered interest usury, and to this day many non-Christians consider it likewise - non-Christians having the same right to stake out a plot on this Earth as any Christian I ever met.
If anyone here thinks I am only dealing with or promoting propaganda, then perhaps it is time for me to cease contributing here, so please do let me know.
In the meantime ...
"Very few people understand money supply. [true - agreed] Economists hardly understand it at all. [I have wondered how many economists understand money supply better than they let on, to save their careers] For them money supply is a given, controlled by politics, and not part of their economic models. [needs work - since at least part of the time, money supply controls politics - "who" controls the money supply controls "government" and the moreso as that "government" is in debt to those who create and emit the money supply] (Governments often neglect to adequately control the money supply. [true - agreed - and sometimes a government gives control of the money supply to a private entity] Political life is easier if there is too much money around. [very true - agreed] Hence inflation is normal. [disagree - inflation results from failure to properly / responsibly control money supply which is a leadership obligation] (Inflation robs everyone, but you can't see it happening.)) [true - agreed - also it is a hidden tax, a tax not approved by any populace, and a drain on The People' wealth]"
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" "Our current money is backed by nothing"
Not true. The money you have is backed by the confidence of the community that other people will accept it in return for goods and services. It's especially important that banks and the government will accept it as full and final payment on debt and taxes."
> I agree the Dollar (that response was addressing an Ohioan whose currency is the Dollar) IS "backed by the confidence of the community" (currently the "global" community) while such confidence lasts. Perhaps when the Dollar finally crashes we will see what is actually "backing" it today. Yes, the Dollar "greases the skids" of our commerce and it does "satisfy" debts and taxes, but we are aware "confidence" in the U. S. Government is wearing thin worldwide. Banks have no choice but to *accept* the Dollar; government does have a choice.
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" "the current monetary system only works if there is debt. When a person signs for a loan, say 100.00. The bank issues a piece of paper that tells the person they owe 100.00 plus a usury."
Remove the word "usury" and insert "interest" and that's valid except "only" is a bit strong. There is a legal arrangement between governments and banks. Banks create money out of nothing, it's just a number in a ledger. But there are rules about how they do this, because if they create too much, the money becomes worthless. That's also why banks are very tough to deal with if you default on your loan. They are maintaining the "value" of the currency. "
> "... that's valid except "only" is a bit strong" ... ???
The "legal arrangement" in the United States right now regarding issuance of money is that money is created only as debt is created; it has been that way since 1913.
Instead of issuing its own money, as it did twice in our history, today the U. S. Government "borrows" (rents) its money supply from a privately held corporation, allowing that entity to use The People's "mints" and printing presses and computers to create coins, paper "currency" and digital money. NONE of that money exists, however, without an "appropriation" - a Congressional "authorization" to "appropriate" (borrow, as it has to, since it no longer creates its own). Words are used to hide from our full understanding what is actually happening. That Congressional "authorization" is essentially just a signature, which is what you must provide if you want a loan from a bank to purchase a car, or a home, or some other major "consumer" item for which you do not have sufficient "cash" accumulation. In either case, NO *money* exists prior to approval of the loan, just as was said in the third post in this thread:
"Our economy is built on credit."
Taken to an extreme, it could be argued there is no "money" - only credit, currency in the form of IOUs. While some of us grew up believing bank loans were made against deposits of other bank customers, in fact, when the *fractional reserve* is 10% banks can loan up to ten times the amount of "high-powered" Federal Reserve money; however, banks do not get to keep all the interest collected on that "inflated" money supply generated by borrowers signatures, since most (not all) depositors expect a "return" on their deposited funds. In my view, the word "usury" is much more applicable to the fractional reserve system than it is to the collection of interest.
Having said that, money which is to be paid as interest (rent) by borrowers does not come from the same place which provides interest paid to depositors - not exactly - yet either way, that "money" does not exist, because in a debt-based monetary system such as we have here, there is no "signature" to create that "extra" money. Nonetheless, the bank(s) expect it to be paid right along with that money which IS created by indebtedness. It is beyond the scope of this post, but in a debt-based economy, that "interest" money is just one of many mechanisms which suck the wealth from a society or a people / population.
A more severe hidden tax is inflation itself. To say banks "are maintaining the "value" of the currency" is to say "I do not understand the role of banks" in this system. Only The Federal Reserve has ability to "maintain" the value of the Dollar, and it is not going to do that; in fact, the Fed ceased publishing money supply statistics because "confidence" in the Dollar would sink faster as the world was aware how worthless each Dollar is relative to all the new dollars being created - in paper or digital form. Banks farther down the hierarchy of our banking system have absolutely NO control over the overall money supply.
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" "The 100.00 is created out of thin air, because it has no backing with precious metals, but the usury [interest] is not created thus leaving the system short?"
The statement is 100% propaganda. It's commonly said, but it's wrong. "
> Please enlighten me how that is wrong.
How IS the "interest" money created then ?
I need to know if I am to communicate truth rather than propaganda.
JB
Private Reply to James Booth (new win) |
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