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| | The Building an Open Future Network is not currently active and cannot accept new posts | | "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | Views: 970 | | Dec 16, 2008 7:20 am | | "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # | 
John Stephen Veitch | | Hello Everyone,
Not much feedback for any of you yet. I do need feedback.
I was raised in the Presbyterian Church, and as a teenager I was very active in Bible Class and a member the Provincial Youth Committee of the church. When I decided to enter the teaching profession my minister confided that he wished me well, but he had hoped that I might have chosen the ministry.
10 years later I had serious doubts about Christianity. I had stopped going to church. When I did on occasion attend, everything they did seemed false, and pointless. Still, I continued to think of myself as a Christian.
Rev. Professor Lloyd Geering challenged the church in a way that made sense to me. I recognised in much of what he said, the source of my own confusion. We are now talking about 1973. Eventually I had the courage to say, "I no longer believe in some higher power. I'm not a Christian, in the way most people understand the word." A few years later I could openly say, "I'm not a Christian". In New Zealand that position is quite readily accepted.
Responding to Geering's thinking was the first break through of many, that have changed my thinking over the years. I've had similar reconstructions of my thinking occur regarding teaching, business, politics, economics, and community action. None of these changes have been easy, but they were all necessary and the process isn't finished.
Here is a brief introduction to Prof. Lloyd Geering.
A Modern Philosopher, Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfFb216HiX0
A Modern Philosopher, Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM66Rl4bfY0
There is a full length version over 90 minutes on YouTube too.
The Last Western Heretic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41LNYusKhfs
John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch | | Jan 25, 2009 8:41 pm | | re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
John Stephen Veitch | | Since I wrote the original post I've been engaged firstly with thinking about the deterioration of the economic situation, and secondly with the massacre in Gaza.
In both cases "WE" make the world.
As Joseph Linders said on my Innovation forum here on Ryze,
http://veech-network.ryze.com/
"the economic crisis is really a moral crisis". I agree.
We've been taught that making money is the only purpose of business. Over time we've diverted the available funds into bigger and bigger investment pools, always seeking the highest returns. We've ended up in a situation where all the funds offering the highest returns are based on unrealistic assumptions. We built a house of cards based on greed.
For all of my adult life, I've believed in the importance of economic growth. The Innovation Network, is important because innovation is the key driver of economic growth. But in recent years, I've come to see that the way we measure economic growth is corrupt. If we have "growth" that destroys the environment, we only "count" the good bit and pretend the destruction is none of our doing. The unprincipled pursuit of "economic growth" is killing our society by corrupting our values, and it's killing the planet by destroying the environment. Who are "we" who presume we have the "right" to behave in this way?
And so to Gaza. Hamas, proved over five months, that they could make a promise NOT to send rockets into Israel and KEEP it. Israel deliberately broke a ceasefire that was working in two ways. From the beginning a blockade of Gaza that had been sustained for year, and was supposed to be lifted if the rocket attacks stopped was NOT lifted. An economic blockade is a war crime. Israel refused to lift the blockade, but even so Hamas kept their side of the deal. Then on 4th November, Israeli forces killed 6 Hamas members. This was the second way Israel broke the ceasefire.
We can now see that from Israel's point of view it was essential to provoke Hamas into attack, so that the pretext for the invasion of Gaza could be paraded to the world. There was a PEACE offer, sitting on the table. Israel for reasons of her own chose to ignore that, and to launch an attack anyway, saying that the "rocket attacks by Hamas on Israel must be stopped". Ignoring the FACT that for five months the attacks had stopped and that a continuation of that truce was openly offered.
Within 4-5 days, the real facts became widely known, and the Israeli propaganda machine was exposed as lying and fraudulent. But some people are slow learners. Right at the end of the fighting, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Hamas of the fighting in Gaza during a joint press conference with Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni in Washington.
"Rice said Hamas started the violence when it launched rockets towards Israel and disregarded the ceasefire."
Well, well, well, the whole world should know that the above statement is a direct LIE. So what sort of corruption sustains this sort of fraudulent behaviour?
Rice went on to speak personally about Tzipi Livni, saying, "Tzipi and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert have the foresight to know that a Palestinian state is in Israel's greatest interest, and that they must pursue the cause of peace with their Arab neighbours. President Bush and I deeply share this goal. And for Tzipi and me, it is now the focus of our work together." (From TIME)
Now that might sound nice, but it's a direct contradiction of the facts. There has been a Peace Settlement agreed by the Arab states, and by the Palestinian Authority of the last SIX YEARS, which gave Israel everything they said they needed, but which Israel and the USA have refused to accept. So there is no genuine effort to seek peace by Israel. The "Arab neighbours" Ms Rice speaks of have been ignored and rejected.
Besides, during those six years, the construction of a separation wall and the development of Israeli settlement in the West Bank have been proceeding rapidly. In other words the illegal theft of Palestinian land continues, making the creation of a Palestinian State impossible. The Zionists are building a "greater Israel" fight under our noses. There is no desire to create a genuine Palestinian state, only apartheid style Bantustans, under direct Israeli control. This is totally unacceptable, and Israel and the USA should know that.
So, as I said at the beginning, "we" make the world, and the crisis we face is a moral crisis.
John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch | | Feb 14, 2009 7:19 pm | | re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # | 
Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | John,
I have actually met folks who do not believe in gravity. They actually believe that gravity is a "state of mind." If you don't mind, gravity does not matter. Now, these folks will not walk off the top of a building to prove their point. No, they will say that they simply have yet to developed their consciousness level far enough. But, when they do reach that state of enlightenment, gravity will not matter.
However, whether you believe in natural laws or not, you are still subject to them. Your belief is irrelevant to the facts. But, if you have the facts and understand how to work with them amazing things can happen. For example, the law of aerodynamics supersedes the law of gravity and big metal contraptions called planes are able to soar through the sky.
If you have never received an answer to prayer that saved your life or someone else's, then perhaps it is a lot easier to be an atheist or agnostic. But, if your life has indeed been touched by the supernatural power of God, it is really quite difficult to deny His Presence in your life. I have seen miracles happen. I have been the recipient of what I believe is divine healing. This is not some kind of parlor trick, but the real deal. It is not something which I can orchestrate or cause to happen through my own efforts.
But, it does happen. After all, miracles are by their very definition not easily explained. Consequently, it should come as no surprise you cannot easily explain God. But, neither can you easily deny His Existence.
Lamar Morgan
CDMM - Synergistic Business Marketing
707-709-8605
Attract more customers! Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Feb 15, 2009 4:25 am | | re: re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
John Stephen Veitch | | Hello Lamar
I think you wrote an excellent letter.
I gave away my Christian belief some 20 years ago. In public I will still participate in public prayers, but in private if fine no value in prayer. On the other hand I see a lot of value in writing in my journal, which is in my view much the same thing.
My wife if she's asked her religion looks for a box labelled "Buddhist". She's very involved in T'ai Chi Ch'uan and spends a lot of time with the Chinese community here in Christchurch.
I think Lloyd Geering speaks for thousands of people who are nominally "Christian", but see the religion of their childhood becoming more and more meaningless. Someone who is committed to the church as you are should take the time to see the full length video, and go to the library and see if one of his several books are available.
Unlike me, Geering hasn't left the church. He thinks that it's inevitable that in the future the whole Christian church will move to embrace the environmental movement, and begin to act on earth as responsible custodians of the planet. Geering is disappointed that this didn't happen 20 years ago, when it seemed a possibility, at least here in NZ.
John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch | | Feb 15, 2009 5:48 pm | | re: re: re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | John,
Permit me to appeal to your keen sense of history rather than issues of faith.
Are you a big fan of the UN? I'm not. Why? Because it's bogged down in it's own rules. My town hall is the same way. It's more interested in following Robert's Rules of Order than getting anything really accomplished.
Guess who the President of Rhodesia has asked to help solve his nation's economic crisis? Not the UN or even the USA. He's sought the guidance of Pastor Rick Warren and the Saddleback Church of Southern California. I actually saw a program about this on the Fox News Channel. The Bible has a lot more to say about people and their attitude toward money than it does about heaven and hell.
Rev. Warren's book, The Purpose-Driven Life, sold 50 million copies worldwide. The President of Rhodesia read that book and decided to contact its author and request economic guidance for his nation. No big top-down program here that begins with the government and trickles down to the people. The church begins with the people and seeks to lift them up...first. That's economic developement that works.
In spite of all the dysfunction in my own area of the world, I am doing something similar. The reason it will be successful is because a Biblical strategy is being used - although most folks here are clueless to even realize it. But, just like gravity, you need not believe in the principle to be subject to it.
What is the principle? It's the power of the 3rd party referral. You see this principle at work when Jesus spoke to the Smaratan woman at the well. Jesus chose to tell the woman not about who he was but rather about who SHE was. If someone told you that you had been married five times and the person you were currently living with was not your spouse - and it happened to be true - that would definitely get your attention. And, you might even tell others about this unusual encounter just as the Samaritan woman did (not revealing any of the embarassing specifics). Bottom line, a whole town wanted to get to know Jesus based upon this one woman's personal testimony.
Does the 3rd party referral exercise the same impact today? Well, here's a personal testimony. Last year I invited The Foundation Center of San Francisco to come to Lake County and present a seminar on grant-seeking basics for the very first time (in 52 years). I issued press releases to the local news media and sent out more than 500 Evite invtations. Result? Almost no response. But then something amazing happened. Both local Chamber of Commerce groups had a epiphany. They figured out that this event was actually of benefit to their members and began to promote it in their newsletters. (I am not a member of either group.) They were not supporting this event as a favor to me. They were supporting it to mske themselves look good to their own constituents.
Well, I have The Foundation Center returning on April 15th. That's two months from now and already folks are RSVP'ing to the event. See for yourself at Tools To Move Middletown, CA Forward.
Biblical principles work. And, that's a fact that can be backed up by a historical event that occurred in March of 2008.
Lamar Morgan
CDMM - Synergistic Business Marketing
707-709-8605
Attract more customers! Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Feb 15, 2009 6:47 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
John Stephen Veitch | | Hello Lamar
I'm a great fan of whatever works.
I'd prefer that the technique was based on sound principles, but like your gravity example, if it works but the principle is misunderstood that's not a critical issue.
All Geering is saying is that "WE" have to accept personal responsibility for what happens on planet Earth. I think you are doing that. I think I am doing that. Our personal motivations are quite different, but we both see that stronger communities and more cooperation is critical to the future.
I'm a strong advocate of the need for world government in many areas. Deliberately the United Nations is impeded from playing that role. The UN is kept crippled and dependent by the major world powers, because that makes them more powerful. Many of the major problems the planet Earth has are caused by a failure of government at a "whole planet" level. Plunder of the oceans, global warming, excessive population growth, many world-wide disease problems, much of the world's poverty, the ongoing issue of hunger, the ongoing refugee issue, all aspects of world trade, the weakness of the International Justice framework. None of these issues can be solved at a country level, in a global world.
John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch | | Feb 16, 2009 12:24 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | John,
We seem to be on the same page with regard to some kind of community collaboration. As you stated, "Whatever works." But, I submit to you that may not be good enough. It is not enough to know that something seems to work. You need to understand WHY so you can reap a benefit from repeating the process.
It's hard to believe now, but cigarettes were once believed to be an asset to one's health. People did not know the truth about cigarettes. Hence, many people became addicted to nicotine.
While mutual collaboration between individusls and even governments I believe is a good thing, a one world government is not. It may look like a good deal, but in reality it's a curse just like cigarettes on a healthy body.
How could I possibly know this? It's a Biblical prophecy from nearly 2,000 years ago. We are actually living in a time when life as we once thought impossible is now commonplace. For example, there was no such thing as a cell phone when you and I were kids. But now, even little kids know how to use the device.
Lamar Morgan
CDMM - Synergistic Business Marketing
707-709-8605
Attract more customers! Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Feb 16, 2009 2:36 am | | re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
John Stephen Veitch | | There are some problems to solve.
Competition for economic and military power between countries guarantees the destruction of humanity.
Internal democracy, REAL democracy that means something, gives people powerful votes that politicians can't ignore. I know people will vote for higher taxes and for hardship for themselves if the KNOW it's essential.
Problems like global warming can be solved in that way or by police and military force. Or of course it might not be solved.
I'm choosing.
Democratic action and self imposed discipline to reverse climate change.
Most of the other "too hard" topics could be tackled the same way.
Of course we need a DEMOCRATIC world government, a subject just too hard to think about until the last few years. One vote one country isn't democratic at all. We need a forum that brings the real world to the table.
John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch | | Feb 25, 2009 4:07 am | | re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | John,
I am all for democracy. After all, I live in the USA - a democratic republic. But, I would not want to see any one person from any nation put in charge of the entire world. A one world government would be a logistical nightmare.
Lamar Morgan
CDMM - Synergistic Business Marketing
707-709-8605
Attract more customers! Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Feb 25, 2009 5:16 am | | re: re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
John Stephen Veitch | | The question of HOW to establish a world government might be a difficult problem, but it needs to be solved. We can't expect to have peace without it.
World trade without world government isn't working. We need something better than a race to the bottom, yet we also need the demand that open trade offers.
In particular the global warming problem can't be solved without strong provisions that BIND countries into a set of agreed rules.
There are also significant health problems in addition to HIV-Aids that need to be dealt with on a global basis.
The idea of giving control of the World Government to "one man" doesn't apply. We're not talking about a Presidential System here. We are I hope talking about a strong General Assembly with membership strength based on population. There would (I hope) be a bias in favour of countries which elect members by democratic means. (The members representing that country represent diverse groups at home.) Each country would develop a group politicians who specialise in international government.
Of course in the world as it is, many countries would simply appoint members. In this case the members are likely to be responsible to the government back home.
The General Assembly would appoint the various councils and committees that became the workhorses of the organization and the decision making bodies.
I imagine a second "House" much smaller, with an entirely different basis for membership. Probably based on financial contribution to the world body, but perhaps also giving credit to countries which provide personnel for the armed forces of the world body.
This is a long way from where we are now. The present UN set up is a mess. Even so, many of the functional arms of the UN do excellent work.
John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch | | Mar 08, 2009 11:50 pm | | re: re: re: re: "WE" are the God who must save the world. It's up to "US" | # |
Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | John,
The UN is not only inefficient but ineffective. Why? Because it gets bogged down in bureaucratic red tape. Some group has a need. The need goes to the main body. The body votes to send the need to a committee for discussion. The committee discusses the issue and makes a decision as to the course of action. The body does not like the committee's decision so the issue is either tabled or goes back to the committee. Meanwhile, people around the world are dying because bureaucrats cannot come to a consensus on a course of action.
No wonder the President of Rhodesia in South Africa reached out to the Saddleback Church of Southern California for help. He cannot afford more "red tape" from the UN. He needs help! And, he needs it NOW!
True progress does not come from the top down - that is, from the government to the people. It comes, instead, from the bottom up - that is, from the people to the government.
It's not government bailouts that are going to solve the US's problems. They are really going to make matters worse - mortgaging the lives of future generations. What is really going to get America out of its current economic mess is the innovation of private enterprise.
The way the world works is not going to change. That change will always stem from innovation - not governmental policies. So many things we do in the world are connected in some fashion. Like the Internet, we are all linked together on this Big Blue Marble called Earth.
I understand India now has a program instituted to create $10 laptop computers for its population. Yes, that is a governmental program. But, guess who is making that happen for the Indian government? Private enterprise. I would not be the least surprised if Microsoft was in some way involved.
Barak Obama became America's president spouting it's time for a "change" in America. Well, nothing is really going to change in America so far as really solving America's financial problems. Politics got us into this mess. Innovative private enterprise will get us out. It is the only resource - outside of divine intervention - that can.
Lamar Morgan
CDMM - Synergistic Business Marketing
707-709-8605
Attract more customers! Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | |
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