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Fake at DhoomimalViews: 930
Jan 19, 2009 3:06 amFake at Dhoomimal#

U V Umesh
Folks!
Time and again fakes have haunted Indian market, but leading gallery exhibiting the masters works and the artist inaugurating the show ;)

http://indianartnews01.blogspot.com/2009/01/recession-fake-work-displayed-at-art.html

Comments!

Umesh U V
Art Consultant
http://affordindianart.com

Private Reply to U V Umesh

Jan 19, 2009 11:13 amre: Fake at Dhoomimal#

Mehul Patel
This is embarrassing!

Regards,
Mehul Patel
http://www.KIPL.Net - New Media Solutions
http://IndyChai.com - India's first Web 2.0 Hyper Aggregated

Private Reply to Mehul Patel

Jan 22, 2009 10:32 amIt's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Jasmine Jehengir
From a Trusted Source and Art Expert:

Raza disowns his early works most of the time.

when caught with one of the clients he turned around and said this is not Raza the artist!

This is becoz those works are not what he is popularly known for and also he is embarassed of those works.

Which is the same that happens with poor dhoomimal people.

He is pretty much of a 'difficult'artist who creates a lot of chaos in the field.

I have proof of what i am saying so please dont write such things becoz its very important that artists too behave themselves.

It's so easy to believe the artist and not the dealer - when its actually the dealer who is suffering in some of this cases - the same dealers who bloody supported them when they were nothing.

Raza is not the only one to do this - F N Souza was famous for it, so is Ram kumar and Akbar padamsee, Manjit and Anjolie.

Get the facts right people!

Private Reply to Jasmine Jehengir

Jan 22, 2009 3:55 pmre: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Hari Iyer
Umesh can you send the read. it is not accessable

Private Reply to Hari Iyer

Jan 22, 2009 4:07 pmre: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

U V Umesh
Hi!
Please go through the latest updates:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5544692.ece


http://indianartnews01.blogspot.com/2009/01/thriving-business-in-fakes-by-kishore.html

Cheers!

Umesh U V
Art Consultant
http://affordindianart.com

Private Reply to U V Umesh

Jan 23, 2009 5:45 amre: re: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Hari Iyer
I posted a detailed reply on this a couple of days ago.

Unfortunately, it went to Jasmine Jehangirs private reply space instead of a general reply post.

I am unable to trace that now under sent messages. Jasmine, if you are listening, can you please send my reply back to me so I could general post it

thanxs

Private Reply to Hari Iyer

Jan 23, 2009 7:16 amre: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

koushal choudhry
Is this the reason why indian modern artist could not become international ????

Private Reply to koushal choudhry

Jan 23, 2009 9:06 amre: re: re: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Jasmine Jehengir
(However I agree with most of you and I guarantee you that this is the Artist playing tricks. F N Souza was famous for it, so is Ram kumar and Akbar padamsee, Manjit and Anjolie.

Let's not praise Artist's as God's they are humans and they need to be Honest before it's too late. Saying This I have Art work from all the Artist I have mentioned above:

Hari Iyer's Reply which reached me as PM below:

This is a perpetually serious issue which will continue to haunt art successfully.

Imagine Raza saying, its not my work, imagine a art critic saying Raza is famous for that and so are another 5 masters, my personal opinion, we are in too vague, too unquantifiable a field to have sustainance.

What if the artist is no more, and there is war like this on the works. What if somebody paid a couple of crores and one set of people say its not a original. What if an artist, based on convinience, refuses to identify his work.

Dhoomimal commands respect and its rubbed to the ground today.

We are in a vague field which will not get less vague

Private Reply to Jasmine Jehengir

Jan 23, 2009 9:32 am Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Mehul Patel
This thread is getting interesting!

Regards,
Mehul Patel
http://www.KIPL.Net - New Media Solutions
http://IndyChai.com - India's first Web 2.0 Hyper Aggregated

Private Reply to Mehul Patel

Jan 23, 2009 11:21 amre: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

miriam koshy
Is he really?
What can he possibly stand to gain by doing what he did?
Free press?!!!?????

Somehow the theory that he found his earlier works "embarassing" seems hard to believe!
Dhoomimal would surely have send him images of the works they planned to display....a show of this stature with an artist of his standing wouldn't have been just organized off the cuff now would it ?

Unless he orchestrated this whole "machiavellian plot" just to sue his nephew !!!!!

Private Reply to miriam koshy

Jan 23, 2009 12:13 pmre: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Hari Iyer
My question remains Jasmine and I would appreciate if somebody could post half a satisfying reply to it

If a public limited company ( read so called past respected companies worldwide ) can, under public and law enforcing agencies eyes, wipe out 7500 crores with so many checks and balances, imagine what an artist, with an eccelectic mind, can do. finally he is the sole owner, maker and manipulator of his decision.

I still maintain it is too, too vague a field of valuation and method and it will successfully continue to haunt people in times to come

Private Reply to Hari Iyer

Jan 23, 2009 12:19 pmre: re: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Hari Iyer
would request the veterans, Mehul Umesh and Sonali along with all others to offer their inputs

Private Reply to Hari Iyer

Jan 23, 2009 12:31 pmre: re: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

U V Umesh
The argument is not 'who is at fault?'

The main issue is that we are in this art business and this issue keeps rocking every now and then, how are we to take steps!

We approach the artists and get the artworks, they do not give authentications along with the artworks instead send it across or take time for us to send them over and return back to us but in the meantime if their mood changes or the relationship turns sour; they can outright deny that the work is not their creation, how do you counter act to these situations?

1) The newer generation of emerging artists can take the cue and with the aid of technology prepare authentications once the artwork is completed and sell it as a package.
2) Document each and every artwork they complete, it hardly takes few minutes with a digital camera or mobile phone these days.
3) Maintain a log book as to where each work is moving from the art studio............


Cheers!

Umesh U V
Art Consultant
http://affordindianart.com

Private Reply to U V Umesh

Jan 25, 2009 11:52 am Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Mehul Patel
Guys.

I have mentioned this a zillion times before if you buy any Art even half the price or 90% off without Authentication or some proper documents from buyer or atleast the gallery owner.

You are on your own. Raza no matter how senior and good, iis just a human, all human's have a positive n negative side, earlier we understand we will be happy!


In today's time people are being used and things are being loved, it's sad but True!

Regards,
Mehul Patel
http://www.KIPL.Net - New Media Solutions
http://IndyChai.com - India's first Web 2.0 Hyper Aggregated

Private Reply to Mehul Patel

Jan 27, 2009 6:09 amre: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Sonali Engineer
Hello,

before we believe anything that is written or believe others its better to get to the root of the story.

It is also important to buy works of art from genuine resources and even then get the provenance right always - track down the buyers always - galleries do that as a request now though sometimes it is difficult because they dont want their sources revealed (why do you all think auction houses mention the provenance in their catalogues?)

Like Mehul and Umesh mention get the details right - crying victum is not allowed in this day of heavy networking - if you invest in financial instruments with so much caution why be gulliable fools when it comes to art?

Dhoomimal is one of the oldest galleries in India - do you think Uma Jain would be so careless with the business she has nutured so carefully? why did Mr. Raza say what he said - ask anyone who was there at the opening and the truth shall prevail.

BE CAREFUL in what you do and you wont need to blame others.

Warm Regards

sonali

Private Reply to Sonali Engineer

Jan 27, 2009 6:21 amre: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Hari Iyer
Provenance is fine Sonali.

what better endorsement ( perceived ) than Raza's nephew organising the show, Raza coming to inaugurate it, Dhoomimal exhibiting it,
and then
Raza calling it fake

This was a pedigree exhibition, god knows how many more have taken place and gone unnoticed. My issue continues, Dhoomimal commands automatic respect because of their lineage and therefore a reasonable presumption that the provenance is in place, and they been taken for one solid ride by a so called Raza family member, then tell me in normal circumstances, how many times would something like this be happening.

It is easy to say provenance, but tell me the method to assure that it is an assured method.

Private Reply to Hari Iyer

Jan 27, 2009 8:04 amre: re: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Sonali Engineer
Dear Hari,

Were they (taken for a ride)? is he(....)? these are questions to your 'statements' put here.


Provenance is simple Hari - do the spade work - in my earlier entries and hazar times i have said these same things - read read read talk talk talk.

Has Uma Jain tried to take bull by its horns? she has tons left to sell so even she is playing safe. Did Raza make such a huge issue of it (its the press milking it - be alert)! why? Anjolie Ela Menon took the person faking her work to court! M F Husain never bothers but he is very vocal about it!

when one says provenance it means track the history of the work - any ethical organisation maintains purchase bills of the work in question - you have the right to know of it or about it. the way to beat these issues is to insist on it - it might be difficult to start a process but even if handful of us begin to ask for it people will get the wind of it. it would stop indiscriminate purchases, black marketing and shady deals. it could also save you worry and tons of money.
and once you have the information even you should be ethical with it and not beat your dealer to the next one.

can we all be ethical? can we all try to regularize it? do we have the conviction to be straight and not point the fingers or cry later on?

its good these things happen - at least a method will eventually come out of it.

Warm Regards

Sonali

Private Reply to Sonali Engineer

Feb 08, 2009 6:27 amre: re: re: re: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

U V Umesh
Update:

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?sectionName=Entertainment&contentId=5111790&programId=1073754907&pageTypeId=1073754893&contentType=EDITORIAL

Cheers!
Umesh U V
http://affordindianart.com

Private Reply to U V Umesh

Feb 09, 2009 8:07 amRe: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Mehul Patel
This is a eye opener thread for many readers.

Umesh. Sonali, Jasmine thanks!

Regards,
Mehul Patel
http://www.KIPL.Net - New Media Solutions
http://IndyChai.com - India's first Web 2.0 Hyper Aggregated

Private Reply to Mehul Patel

Feb 09, 2009 8:58 amre: Re: It's Raza @ Fault and not Dhoomimal!#

Sonali Engineer
i think the its very sad the way people love to write - 'making hay while the sun shines'! what happened to investigative journalism? i know Uma Jain and I stand by the Lady. Hats off to her class for not speaking up and calling a spade a spade.

Private Reply to Sonali Engineer

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