Ryze - Business Networking Get a Coderbuddy developer now

"I Highly Recommend Them" - Magnitude.io CEO; US timezone; affordable rates; Silicon Valley leadership
Get your software built!
Buy Ethereum and Bitcoin
Get started with Cryptocurrency investing
Home Invite Friends Networks Friends classifieds

Apply for Membership

About Ryze

Small Business Think Tank
Previous Topic | Next Topic | Topics
The Small Business Think Tank Network is not currently active and cannot accept new posts
AIG OutrageViews: 1057
Mar 21, 2009 8:15 pmAIG Outrage#

Michael Lemm
I just received the latest newsletter from Rep. Randy Forbes (my Congressman) and the message really hit home with me. Thought I'd share it with ya'll.

I am more than ticked at AIG and their giving of bonuses to executives that created their mess in 1st place .... AND giving billions to Foreign banks. All of it coming out of their bailout money. Meaning "my" pocket and yours.

But just as bad ((even worse to me) .... is the mishandled way that our politicians rushed these bills through with no prudent review and zero plans for oversight included in them. Their whining now about AIG bonuses and payments to foreign banks smacks of hypocrisy based on their own mismanagement of the situation .... AND VOTING THEMSELVES A PAY RAISE IN THE LAST MONTH TO BOOT. Hello .... anyone home??

Anyway .... below is what Rep. Forbes has to say. I couldn't have said it better myself. Your thoughts / comments are encouraged.

God Bless,
Michael Lemm
FreedomFire Communications
"Helping YOUR Business.....DO Business"


AIG Outrage

Imagine a situation where a husband goes out one day and, in the midst of the current economic situation, decides to buy an expensive new boat. A few weeks later, the bill comes in the mail. His wife opens the bill, steaming as she realizes what he’s done and sees the monthly payment they will now have to make on top of all of their other monthly commitments. As her husband walks into the room, she throws the bill across the table demanding an explanation. Her husband looks down at the bill. Realizing he can’t make the payments and seeing how mad his wife is, he pounds his first on the table and says angrily, “Honey, I am outraged over this bill that we have to pay!”

This situation seems like a scene we’d find ourselves watching on a Thursday evening sitcom. In reality, it is what we found ourselves watching on the news this week as Members of Congress and members of the Administration pounded their fists and cried “outrage” over taxpayer-funded bonuses that went to AIG executives. In fact, the word “outrage” was used in almost every speech on this issue on the House floor this week.

As I watched those Members express “outrage,” I couldn’t help but be irritated about their outrage. I am one of only 17 out of 435 Members of Congress who voted against every single one of the so-called bailout and stimulus packages under both Presidents Bush and Obama. I did so for the very reason that there was no accountability over where the money would actually go. Without accountability and transparency, we will have waste, fraud, and abuse. In fact, there was not even time to read most of the bills before leadership rushed to pass them.

"Americans also have every right to be angry at Congress expressing outrage over a problem it created itself."

Over the past several months, those 17 of us have been calling for more legislative analysis and debate over the bailout bills, and trying to ask intelligent questions about them. At the same time, the Members who have been expressing “outrage” this week were the ones ignoring the rules, rushing bills through by sidestepping the legislative process, and trying to convince the American people that the world was going to come to an end if we didn’t immediately pass each bailout or stimulus package.

Americans have every right to be angry that their money – money meant to be creating jobs and stabilizing the economy – will instead by used to pay more than $165 million in executive bonuses at AIG. This is on top of the revelation over the weekend that roughly half of the taxpayer money spent to rescue AIG was passed on to European banks and politically connected Wall Street investment firms in the first three-and-a-half months of the government bailout.

Americans also have every right to be angry at Congress expressing outrage over a problem it created itself. If individual Members of Congress would have just read the bills, they would have likely realized what most of the analysts have been telling us – that it would take thousands of government bureaucrats simply to monitor where the bailout money is actually going and how it is being spent.

Just as the husband couldn’t realistically expect his expression of outrage to cover for his own irresponsible purchase, Members of Congress cannot expect their outrage to be some type of “Get Out of Political Hot Water Free” card. The American people deserve better. They deserve analysis and debate in Washington. Indeed, it is time that Members of Congress start asking four basic questions before rushing to pass bailout and stimulus legislation:

1. Where is the money actually going?
2. How do we know it is going to get where it supposed to go?
3. Will it actually work once it arrives?
4. How will we pay it back?

I am confident if these questions were asked, there would be more than 17 out of 435 of us standing up against the bailout packages. While we can't redo the mistakes of the past, we can learn from its lessons. Next week, I will begin outlining the principles I believe should guide America’s leaders through our current economic situation – principles that will help open the debate on these issues, put an end to the bailout madness, and put us on an effective course towards economic recovery.

Private Reply to Michael Lemm

Mar 29, 2009 9:40 pmre: AIG Outrage#

Eileen Brown
The same word that has come to mind in the past few years
for many corporate mindsets:


Eileen :|

Web Development - http://www.bekansas.com/
SEO Copywriting - http://www.buddycopywriting.com/copywritinghome/
Web Site Graphics - http://www.buddywebgraphics.com/
ABHP - JOIN this ACTIVE Ryze Network! - http://abhp-network.ryze.com/

Private Reply to Eileen Brown

Mar 29, 2009 11:56 pmre: AIG Outrage#

John Stephen Veitch

Your congressman, Rep. Randy Forbes is just as crooked as all the rest, probably more so because he's trying to tell you that "I'm a good guy". Bullshit. It's rather sad Michael that you think he's making a valid point. That's causes me to think that you haven't taken off your rose coloured glasses yet. Never mind, things are going to get worse, and those glasses will come off.

All Republicans close to the party bear some responsibility for the present economic situation. So when Rep. Randy Forbes tries to claim "not me"; he isn't credible.

This is a national economic emergency. When Obama's team tried to act with emergency measures they offered the opportunity of a joint action process. Republicans wisely I believe chose to avoid that. If the plan fails they don't want that burden too.

However they also chose to sabotage the plan willing it with "PORK" and misdirecting the effort to other agendas. Such behavior indicates that for them is "the old political game in the old way." To which I say, disgrace, don't you guys understand yet what you've done, and that in four year time the American people are going to blame YOU for the disaster they have been through and that Republican members of Congress will be lucky if they can will any seats anywhere in the USA. The Republican party is GONE, but these guys don't know it yet.

Wake up Michael. They've fooled you a 100 times, and you let that continue. This depression is changing a lot of things. Fundamental values will be put to the test. I've been saying for many years that the USA's political system is broken. Both Republicans and Democrats fail to represent the public. Both parties are handmaidens of the MONEY that comes form business interests.

For me that is exactly why Obama can't fix the economic crisis. The people he should be acting against are the very same people who fund the Republican and the Democratic Parties. So he nibbles at the edges, he can't tackle the root. I expect he will fail.

Which brings me to the video about "Thomas Paine".

The video covers far too much and a good deal of what is says is fundamentally wrong, and contradictory. However, the central theme, that the system is broken and that the people of the USA have to fix it is correct.

What's never mentioned in the USA, is how the first past the post (winner takes all) voting system denies people real political power. In this system because of gerrymandered districts close the half the votes cast have no chance of counting for anything. No wonder lots a clued up people don't bother to vote. 90% of Congress members are is "safe seats" and all the votes for the other party are essentially just a protest.

Of course as the video claims the Electoral College, is another barrier to democratic control.

It's my view that the way forward is proper representation. You get that by some form of proportional representation. That will bring several new parties into the political process. That achieved the American People might have a means of making the government responsive to public needs.

John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/

Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch

Mar 30, 2009 7:26 pmre: re: AIG Outrage#

Michael Lemm

I'm going to keep this very short. Primarily because I really don't like engaging in a "discussion" where 1 participant is as beligerent and unyielding as you often can be. Disagreeing is OK .... I've zero problem with that. But how you do it says much about the person. Please think on that a bit.

My personal view is that if 2 people are in a room by themselves .... and all they do is agree .... 1 is not doing their job and the other is not necessary. BUT ... again it's HOW you disagree and discourse about that differing point of view that makes the event worthwhile or not. As in productive or just a pissing match.

So ... calling Randy a crook ands using "BS" isn't appropriate.....or worthwhile.

Particularly since I know better....1st hand.

Randy is a neighbor of mine .... lives just a few miles away. I happen to know he is NO crook and has been voicing the same values since the 1st day he stepped foot in DC. Shoot ... even well before that. Reread what he says. Slowly and word for word. Without your own colored glasses. He's espousing common sense and accountablility for EVERYONE. Without exception. ALL the time. Randy wasn't exactly a Bush fan either .... "disagreed" a number of times with GW. For what it's worth. Also .... knowing what I know .... Pelosi, Franken, and Dodd are the biggest of the "crooks" with a huge portion of the "responsibility" laying at their feet. Republicans blameless? No .... never said that. But Randy isn't one of "those". He's been raising that flag for years.

That's enough of a "reply". I know what know .... I know what I think .... I know what I believe. And I'm fine with it all.

God Bless,
Michael Lemm
FreedomFire Communications

Private Reply to Michael Lemm

Mar 30, 2009 11:52 pmre: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Scott Wolpow
When you can vote in US elections you will have an opinion that has impact. Other than that you are just trashing our country.

Private Reply to Scott Wolpow

Mar 31, 2009 1:28 amre: re: re: AIG Outrage#

John Stephen Veitch
To both Michael and Scott

Congress hasn't served the people for a long time. The two party system has always been corrupt, but the level of corruption was restrained by "checks and balances". Across the world when countries get a chance to establish modern political systems they don't choose the two party model. It's far too inflexible, and one day will be changed. (In the UK too. In fact 10 years ago the British Labour Party promised to do just that, but once elected didn't bother.) That issue is currently being revisited too.

It seemed to me in 2000, looking from the outside, that despite the problems with the electoral system, with the party system and with the deficit, the checks and balances were working, and the system plodded along.

Once in a lifetime for most of us there comes a change that for us changes everything. Perhaps you (perhaps I did too) thought that in your life, the terrorist attacks of 911 were that moment.

911 allowed President GW Bush to be "strong" and to reinforce many of the things that were wrong with America, but under restraint. 911 seems to have removed that restriction. Now it was possible in government to make decisions without opposition that would have been impossible previously. (And apparently the same sort of decisions were being made in business too.) The result hasn't been a happy one.

Right now the depression the world is entering into has the potential to change America and the world in ways that make 911 look like a the movie trailer for what is now the main event.

If I'm right not only will the dollar value of everything be reassessed, but the value of all our ideas and prejudices will also be "stress tested" as Tim Geithner has been saying.

All of America's political parties will be tested in this process too. World opinion voted GW Bush out of office long before his first 4 years as President were up. The USA chose to re-elect him. For me that simply reads as, dysfunctional news media and Tweedlle Dum and Tweedle Dee as possible options. The system is devoid of ideas and broken.

Today is another day. There is a new challenge in front of us. Obama is trying to rescue the OLD SYSTEM, he's trying to rebuild what's broken. I don't think success is possible. Nor do I think that success in that way is desirable. The system needs to change.

As the crisis deepens I expect, strikes, sit-in's, and street protests. In a few months protests could easily turn into riots. I don't say this to "trash the USA" but to acknowledge the seriousness of the situation and the difficulty President Obama is facing.

So when I see the Republican Party play politics with he real need to do something that works, I shake my head in despair.

John Stephen Veitch
Open Future Limited - http://www.openfuture.biz/
Innovation Network - http://veech-network.ryze.com/
Building an Open Future - http://openfuture-network.ryze.com/

Private Reply to John Stephen Veitch

Mar 31, 2009 1:49 amre: re: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Scott Wolpow
No matter what you say about our country, you still speak English, not Japanese. Thanks to our corrupt two party system.

Private Reply to Scott Wolpow

Mar 31, 2009 5:11 pmre: re: AIG Outrage#

Reg Charie
I would like to inject a few comments here.

Please confine your comments to discussing the problems and do not attack the poster on a personal level.

"That's causes me to think that you haven't taken off your rose coloured glasses yet." has no place in an intelligent discussion.

Michael, no matter how well you know your "neighbor from a few miles away" you have no way to discern what his actual motives are, or who is 'paying' him (if anyone), or if he is straight as an arrow, slightly or considerably bent.

You can form an opinion, but that is ALL it is.. You would have to be inside his head to know otherwise.

Scott, the network is open to all.. One does not have to live in the US to comment on the problems.

One of the things that concerned me about the AIG bonuses is the total lack of information as to who and why the bonuses are being paid.
What if a recipient has, despite the financial crisis, gone well past the expected and done a superb job?
Should this person be denied his performance bonus? It IS possible for a company to be losing money while some departments are exceeding targets.

Reg - NEW DEMO!! Turn photos into paintings http://FantasticMachines.com
All You Need is Dotcom-Productions and a Dream. http://dotcom-productions.com
0Grief http://0grief.com/special_hosting_accounts_for_my_ryze_friends.htm
CRELoaded websites http://RegCharie.com - SBTT http://thinktank-network.ryze.com

Private Reply to Reg Charie

Mar 31, 2009 5:23 pmre: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Scott Wolpow
Yes, Reg anyone can comment, but John seems to disparge the US every chance he gets. To say that all our leaders are crooked is just wrong.
I would comment about New Zealand, but it only makes the news when they shoot movies or TV shows. Inother words, no one realy cares about it.

Private Reply to Scott Wolpow

Apr 05, 2009 6:37 pmre: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Kathy Buck
Reg said: "One of the things that concerned me about the AIG bonuses is the total lack of information as to who and why the bonuses are being paid.
What if a recipient has, despite the financial crisis, gone well past the expected and done a superb job?
Should this person be denied his performance bonus? It IS possible for a company to be losing money while some departments are exceeding targets."

I've read the arguments stating that those who did do good work are a part of the workforce that needs to be retained thus compensated.

From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/business/16aig.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

"The bonus plan established for the financial products unit before the federal government stepped in called for $220 million in retention pay for 400 employees for 2008. About $55 million of that was paid in December and the remaining $165 million was paid on Friday.

The retention plan also calls for another $230 million in bonuses for 2009 that are due to be paid by March 2010. Combined with the 2008 bonuses, that would bring the total retention pay for financial products executives to $450 million. But in response to pressure from Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, A.I.G. agreed to reduce its 2009 bonuses for the financial products unit by 30 percent.

The payments to executives in that unit are in addition to $121 million in previously scheduled bonuses for the company’s senior executives and 6,400 employees across the sprawling corporation."

Contract Law 101
These bonuses for selling X amounts of units were written before the government stepped in. The contract is with AIG, thus AIG owes the money to these employees. Which brings round the main point, that being; the bailout at the cost of taxpayers paying not only salaries but huge bonuses to "failed" company and the employees being justified.

In my mind - NO, the bonuses are not justified. The system was broke and these people chose to remain. The bail out a mere band aid for another large corporations lack of accountability. And now my tax dollars going for some SOB to drive a BMW and take a holiday in the tropics? NOT!

No sympathy here. Even a captain of a sinking ship knows when to jump.

Average median pay scale for AIG employees

AIG and all the other scum sucking greed monsters need to look around. Hundreds of thousands of people being laid off, cut and kicked to the curb. And you have the gall to demand MORE bonus payment from the very average Joe trying to figure out how to now provide for a family? I do not think our founding fathers meant for the taxation system to citizens to be a Savings and Loan for corporate shleps.

The entire support by our government to these greedy mongers reminds me of the the french famine under Louie the 16th reign. Antoinette muttered "qu'ils mangent de la brioche" here in the west better known as "let them eat cake", except brioche is NOT cake. Meanwhile Louie and Annie living high on the hog, I doubt eating brioche with their people.

The same callousness is being advocated - suffer the hard times, cut back -- oh BTW we are taking your money to pay others. History repeats itself - it was that French Monarchy's "rule" that led to a revolution led by the people, for the people.

I dare you - find me one government bobble head or bail out bone head that is living check to check, driving a beater car and not vacationing or even given up dining out to also get through these hard times. Yet- they request "we" all do to sustain others.

Gimme a break.

Private Reply to Kathy Buck

Apr 05, 2009 9:10 pmre: re: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Marketing ManagerChuck & Shirley Bartok

Interesting to note that the backbone of the Industry, the Insurance Agent is
Lowest level

Private Reply to Marketing ManagerChuck & Shirley Bartok

Apr 06, 2009 1:03 amre: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Lindy Asimus
One of the things that concerned me about the AIG bonuses is the total lack of information as to who and why the bonuses are being paid.
What if a recipient has, despite the financial crisis, gone well past the expected and done a superb job?
Should this person be denied his performance bonus? It IS possible for a company to be losing money while some departments are exceeding targets.

One of the factors leading to this current situation, is the the setting up of the KPIs on what is measured as "success". Short term with no eye on the long term implications.

Meeting targets is great. Meeting targets that are the wrong targets for the health of the company? Not so much. Meeting targets that puts the industry at peril? Not so much.

If you look at this in an entirely different example, say sale in a business, it seems obvious that selling more of something is going to be only a good thing.

In fact, if the goods are priced without respect to the costs and overheads and such, the more good sold, can be (and has been in some cases) the cause for business to go under. Understanding how to price is imperative to getting a good outcome. For some businesses, selling more - bigger success - can be the road to their demise.

Surely someone is responsible for the culture and the results that the standards set within a company generate. This should, perhaps, be the basis on which bonuses are paid, and previous bonuses paid back. Hard to kick the staff who have done as instructed. Those issuing the instructions have the status and with that goes the 'reward'.

For the staff, in the position that they are doing something to achieve targets, which they know to be illegal, unethical or somewhere in between, it is time perhaps to have the discussion within the community about what is ethical, and appropriate behaviour, and that is less likely to happen when people are in bondage to the fear they have of losing their job for speaking up. This is another area that I do believe needs to change before the system gets healthy again.



Private Reply to Lindy Asimus

Apr 06, 2009 3:41 amre: re: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Reg Charie
I am still not convinced the bonuses were uncalled for or not deserved.

Let me move the focus to a personal experience.
In a distant life I was a tech service / sales rep working for a large supplier in Canada's largest city.

Hard times were striking the industry with weekly shutdowns of small and medium sized printing shops.

Our company was suffering and the manager, in his infinite wisdom, changed the sales and services staff's office attendance rules to provide peptalk meetings 3 mornings a week and brainstorming sessions from 4 to 5 on the other two days.

Previously, we had to only meet in office one day a week, on Friday at 3.

As 95% of my job was on the road, visiting clients, office visits greatly extended my day from 8 or 9 hours to about 12 to 14 due to added commuting times.

They also shortened the amount of time I could spend with each client to meet my 8 clients a day "quota".

While I was losing sales due to company closings it was the little guys that were going under and they did not use a whole lot of my product, the majority of which were in the large web shops.

I was busting my tail for longer hours, and by August had exceeded last years sales by over 15%, a guarantee of a great commission check at year's end.

Our CFO's (yet to be discovered) embezzlement of hundreds of thousands of dollars was causing even more strain on the manager and he issued orders that product was to be labeled to spec even when off. This would save him 7% on our materials ordered. Unfortunately he chose to do so on my biggest account, and one that routinely had their quality control department check specifications.

He also reduced the commission amount by several percent.
More than enough to cost me some $15,000.

Things like this backfire.

Most of the sales/tech staff left.
5 of the 7 went over to the competition.

In 2 years there were no management or sales people there from this time period, and that included a partner senior sales VP.

There is no evidence that the employees getting the bonuses were doing anything short term or wrong. If they were getting these bonuses for bringing in business that would otherwise be lost, then it should be a "cost of doing business".

If they were manipulating the system or performing illegal or semi legal acts such as granting a loan knowing the borrower would not be able to afford the refinancing, then they should be shot, or at least fired, regardless of income or bonuses.

In hard times you NEED the overachievers who get the big bonuses. Don't be misled because of fact that they are paying "bonuses".

Reg - NEW DEMO!! Turn photos into paintings http://FantasticMachines.com
All You Need is Dotcom-Productions and a Dream. http://dotcom-productions.com
0Grief http://0grief.com/special_hosting_accounts_for_my_ryze_friends.htm
CRELoaded websites http://RegCharie.com - SBTT http://thinktank-network.ryze.com

Private Reply to Reg Charie

Apr 06, 2009 3:50 amre: re: re: re: re: AIG Outrage#

Scott Wolpow
While at SES I met a person who worked for an AIG company. They have never lost money, have an excellent record on paying claims and the only mortgages they are involved are for their own building and when they relocate workers. Yet they are getting hammered over deserved bonuses.

Private Reply to Scott Wolpow

Apr 06, 2009 8:18 pm: re: AIG Outrage#

Kathy Buck
I'm not saying any of the bonuses are undeserved, though I have no proof I'd reckon many worked hard to obtain though bonuses.

My issue in tax dollars supporting ANY further bonuses is this:

From ABC News 2008
"Martin Sullivan, the AIG CEO until June, said the company was overwhelmed by a "financial global tsunami," and that "no simple or single cause" was to blame. "

A Tsunami eh?

Please now explain why less than a week after the federal government committed $85 billion to bail out AIG, executives of the giant AIG insurance company headed for a week-long retreat at a luxury resort and spa, the St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, California.

Investigators show the company paid more than $440,000 for the retreat, including nearly $200,000 for rooms, $150,000 for meals and $23,000 in spa charges. 23k in Spa charges? I guess some nails got broke scratching the US taxpayers eyes out.

These executives should be thrown in jail for taking an exclusive retreat on mine (and your) f***ing dime.

I need a retreat from the tsunami too. Oh look, some change in the couch cushion -

I've worked for CEO greed whores. Several years ago one such CEO made an investment in a big golden carrot. I guess a tsunami hit then. I was the last of management to jump ship. Six months later - sales staff gone, ALL software engineers and programmers on a as needed contract basis, IT service gone. NO one got any bonuses. Meanwhile CEO buying new office furniture, cars, etc.

The people due contracted bonuses are victims of corporate greed. No tax payer should have to carry that weight. the money for the retreat should have been used to pay some bonuses due. IF that would have happened I might have a bit more compassion for AIG.

Private Reply to Kathy Buck

Apr 06, 2009 9:37 pmre: : re: AIG Outrage#

Reg Charie
Now you are just being mean.
No luxury retreat to celebrate the influx of government funds?

No free spa facilities to sooth away the worry and laugh lines?

Next thing you will want is accountability.

Reg - NEW DEMO!! Turn photos into paintings http://FantasticMachines.com
All You Need is Dotcom-Productions and a Dream. http://dotcom-productions.com
0Grief http://0grief.com/special_hosting_accounts_for_my_ryze_friends.htm
CRELoaded websites http://RegCharie.com - SBTT http://thinktank-network.ryze.com

Private Reply to Reg Charie

Apr 07, 2009 12:59 pmre: re: : re: AIG Outrage#

Kurt Schweitzer
Please keep in mind the difference between a private company and one that's publicly traded.

I own a private company. The money that founded and supports it comes from me. The profits it generates, after I cover expenses and employee wages, all belong to me. How I choose to spend (or invest) those profits is my business.

Likewise, how I choose to reward my employees is between me and them.

One thing that ANY business is expected to do is honor its contracts. If I am so foolish as to write an employment contract that says I'll give you $X if you're still working for me on December 31, I'd better do that.

One thing to note about a corporation is that an officer can make commitments that are legally binding on the corporation. The only recourse a shareholder has is to have the officer fired. Shareholders can't do this directly, it has to be done by the board of directors.

And even if the officer is removed, the obligation still has to be met.

I think this is the case for AIG. Bonuses were contractual obligations. The officer (CEO) was fired several months ago, but still the contractual obligations had to be met.

What else can anyone do?

Kurt Schweitzer
Urban Village Scooters

Private Reply to Kurt Schweitzer

Apr 07, 2009 9:19 pmre: re: re: : re: AIG Outrage#

Tim Southernwood
Hey everyone,

Normally I steer WAY clear of political or domestic issues of countries other than Canada.
Unfortunately for all you American's on this list, you may have to steel yourselves for some negative feedback coming from outside your borders for the simple fact that the financial crisis which started in the US has affected EVERY other country in the world.

Many people around the globe are sitting at their kitchen tables with pink slip in hand wondering how and why the crisis in America could cost them their own jobs.

Those of us who understand globalization however know only too well that the world financial systems being so interconnected, and the markets so dependent on the stability of those financial markets, that when one domino falls.. it starts a massive chain reaction that cannot be stopped.

The sad thing, as others have pointed out, is that while some continue with their fancy lifestyles and even benefit from the influx of government bail-out money (aka our tax dollars) many more, hundreds of MILLIONS more suffer deprivations, dislocations, and despair.

Starvation in Africa was already present, but with the massive inflation now hitting many countries because of the worlds financial downturn.. the cost of food has soared! leaving many more without enough food to keep going.

I think that when any single country exerts so much influence over world financial affairs, they also shoulder a certain responsibility of proper action to the countries of the world. Flat out.. the actions taken that precipitated this mess were irresponsible. Those who directed the companies in those decisions at the highest level are also responsible.

I'm siding with Kathy on this, in that regardless of any contractual obligations to the employees, the companies also have obligations of greater importance to the country and all the people affected. That responsibility takes precedence. If they were paying the employees bonuses from money EARNED then I would have nothing to say, but the money comes from a Government BAILOUT, i.e. taxpayers money.
If it was my tax dollars I would say "There is NO MONEY for bonuses! suck it up princess and sue me if you don't like it."

Sadly.. that isn't the way this world works.

And so millions of people will starve, and in the US and Canada, thousands of people will lose their jobs and homes.

Think of how many lives or jobs and homes that bonus money could save and then tell me it's ok.

Just my .02

Private Reply to Tim Southernwood

Apr 07, 2009 10:25 pmre: re: re: re: : re: AIG Outrage#

Scott Wolpow
The other countries also got greedy. They did not do due dilligence.
While we are on the topic, what about the rest of the countires help stopping terrorism?
Or about playing fairly with international trade?

I think it would just be great if Germany, Italy and Japan paid their debt from World War 2 to teh Untied States. Then we could give that money back to our citizens so we can spend and support the rest of the planet.

Private Reply to Scott Wolpow

Apr 08, 2009 2:28 amre: re: re: re: : re: AIG Outrage#

Kurt Schweitzer
"Think of how many lives or jobs and homes that bonus money could save and then tell me it's ok."

As I understand it, the AIG bonus money adds up to somewhere in the neighborhood of $165 million. (That's Million, with an 'M', not Billion with a 'B'.)

According to the U.S. Census Bureau the poverty threshold for a single individual under age 65 was $11,201 in 2008. A little math says that the bonus payments are equivalent to 14,730 people at the poverty level.

The bonuses were being distributed to 168 people according to a CBS report, so those people are receiving a little less than $1 million each on average. That same report puts the largest payment at around $4 million.

According to a CNN report there were 2.6 million jobs lost in the U.S. in 2008. The bonus money would result in a poverty level income to 1/2 of one percent of them.

A rational analysis of the AIG bonus money shows that, big as it is in dollar terms, it is insignificant when compared to the economic situation.

Yes, I'd like to have $165 million, or even $1 million. It would help my life immensely, but in terms of the country as a whole it is NOTHING!

Get over it!

Kurt Schweitzer
Urban Village Scooters

Private Reply to Kurt Schweitzer

Previous Topic | Next Topic | Topics

Back to Small Business Think Tank

Ryze Admin - Support   |   About Ryze

Ryze Android preview app

Testing Gets Real: blog on A/B testing, building businesses with feedback loops, by Adrian Scott

© Ryze Limited. Ryze is a trademark of Ryze Limited.  Terms of Service, including the Privacy Policy