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| formation of an association - of trainers! | Views: 1251 |
| Aug 17, 2009 10:20 am | | formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | i see many well meant suggestions about formong an association of trainers.
an association formation process is not unfamiliar for me.
one requires to have a set of people who have a common motive.
the motive helps create an objective.
now what can the objective of an association of well qualified and good mannered people be?
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 17, 2009 10:29 am | | re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Arun Chitlangia | | In stead of forming a new association, why not strenghthen the exisitng one i.e. ISTD.
Its not exactly an association, but the purpose is similar.Private Reply to Arun Chitlangia |
| Aug 17, 2009 10:32 am | | re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | 1. to create a fraternity of shared interest in the trade.
2. to create a platform for sharing knowledge connected with the trade.
3. to offer a platform for fostering mutual co-operation.
4. to disseminate vital information about the trade and matters concerning the trade to members.
5. to secure organized and concerted action to attempt to alleviate or mitigate difficulties and constraints that affect the members in common.
6. to arrange exposition of members to the market through media and exhibition.
7. to create an avenue for sharing of market intelligence.
8. to evolve a set of standards for the operation of the trade.
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 17, 2009 10:42 am | | re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | ISTD has an agenda that can complement the trade very effectively.
ISTD has a good set of objectives.
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 17, 2009 11:31 am | | formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Ivan Bayross | | Hi All,
I'm just curious, but in my 57 years of life I've never ever experienced a Government (or quasi Government) entity ever being 'Strengthened' by a group of outside professionals.
My experiences have always been that such entities actively dislike 'Strengthening' from anyone other then their chosen ones.
If there are people on this thread who have different experiences from mine, please do write in and share.
I then will have the opportunity of changing my perspective using the experience of my peers.
BTW, anyone had a look at their website / portal it will be quite educative if you do.
http://www.istddiploma.org
Regards,
Ivan Bayross
Private Reply to Ivan Bayross |
| Aug 17, 2009 1:45 pm | | re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | 57 years outside the matrix . . . . Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 17, 2009 3:38 pm | | re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Arun Chitlangia | | I agree that ISTD has its own style of functioning and we need to improve in many ways. I also beleive that things are changing.
At Mumbai chapter, we are taking a lot of initiative to arrange lot many activities.
I am not against the idea of Association. However, my opinion is that in stead of diverting collective energy to 2 organisations, its better to focus on existing one and make it vibrant.
Arun Chitlangia
Vice Chairman - ISTD Mumbai ChapterPrivate Reply to Arun Chitlangia |
| Aug 18, 2009 3:39 am | | formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Ivan Bayross | | Hi Arun,
Impressive signature.
Did not notice it earlier.
Just kidding.
Regards,
Ivan Bayross
Private Reply to Ivan Bayross |
| Aug 18, 2009 5:23 am | | re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Indumathi Mulakaluri | |
Hi Arun& friends,
Am with you in this initiative. So how do we begin?
regards
InduPrivate Reply to Indumathi Mulakaluri |
| Aug 18, 2009 5:47 am | | re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Arun Chitlangia | | 1. Form a Committee at ISTD. Invite members and guests on board. I will do that.
2. Brain storm the purpose of this Committee. One of them will be to safe guard Trainers' interests like payment, leagl help etc.
3. Create a Black List or Grading system, so that the Trainers and Clients can have some idea of the caliber of the person/organization before they enter in to any agreement or assignment.
4. Most important. Volunteers to take up responsibility and convert above collected thoughts and decisions in to action.
5. Regular meetings to evaluate progress and further course of action.
6. ISTD will support all above. If its OK with you, I will plan a meeting soon and take the first step forward.Private Reply to Arun Chitlangia |
| Aug 18, 2009 5:58 am | | re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Indumathi Mulakaluri | |
Excellent...That would be great. We need more participation from all trainers and training companies. I will spread the word among my network.
Looking forward to a great initiative.
regards
InduPrivate Reply to Indumathi Mulakaluri |
| Aug 18, 2009 12:26 pm | | re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
sushant pati | | Great Initiative Mr Arun
We could use ryze effectively to voice our opinion and thoughts
But my only worry is very few are raising any issues or topics thou i see lot of trainers / people intrested in training are visiting the site and prefer to be silent.
I find very few trainers are giving their opinion on the topic we r discussing - Formation of an association of Trainers .
Either we should have a minimum number of trainers to write to show that they are really intrested in the formation of a wing or an association that would safeguard the trainers intrest which i am not seeing in the discussion . Thou i would like to be proved wrong.
In any case Mr Arun kindly go ahead with your plans i thought i should voice my concerns . Can we have a date of the first and second meeting and the venue .
Cheers
Sushant pati
Private Reply to sushant pati |
| Aug 18, 2009 7:23 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | |
PLEASE READ THE ARTICLES AND THE MEMORANDUM OF THE ISTD BEFORE SUGGESTING OR DEMANDING ANY ACTION BY OR ON BEHALF OF ISTD. HAVE THE SAME INTERPRETED UNDER THE BACKDROP OF THE LAW BY KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSONS.
a good organization like the ISTD can run into serious legal trouble and also tarnish its name if such statements are made out of ignorance of law. being registered as a society has its own set of constraints.
can the charter of any SOCIETY permit the society to maintain a BLACK LIST? it would have to be brought into the Objectives in the Articles and the Memorandum and would have to within law. any BLACK LIST would be open to charges of character assasination and libel.
any "grading system" performs an accredition function. in order to grade one must have established and adopted benchmarks. all benchmarks used for grading and certification have to be traceable to standards. standards when used for grading or certification have to contain measurable parameters. to my knowledge ISTD does not have any measurable parameters adopted as standards.
i suggest that knowledgeable people from the field of quality systems, statistical quality systems and standardization be consulted and ISTD charter be studied to see if there is room for adding grading as an objective.
leadership, drive and passion are very good qualities. they set the ball in motion. actual cosntruction and maintenance of processes, systems and organizations is an altogether different science to be handled by specialists.
enthusiasm if misplaced and misdirected can lead to failure and frustration.
thank you for your attention everyone.
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 19, 2009 5:35 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Arun Chitlangia | | Thanks Soeb, for your valuable input.
First, lets us assertain need of such platform, wing or forum.
If the need is there, lets us brain storm and find ways which are with in law.
As suggested by you, we should take help from specialists and find out if society's law permit such actions.
If not, can the law be amended, if it serves a greater purpose to trainers' fraternity?
The whole idea is that for an individual trainer it is difficult to perform certain acts and if a collective body can do it for a win win situation to all concerned.
I agree, that this is a tall order. Yet, we have to make some beginning some where.
Once again, thanks for your views. We would like to be benefitted with your knowleadge and experience.Private Reply to Arun Chitlangia |
| Aug 19, 2009 7:58 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | tall is a monumental understatement . . . to amend a law is an act to be performed the the legislative wing of our government.
i think we need wiser people in addition to highly skilled, highly motivated and highly opinionated people.
widening the base of any pyramid is necessary but never sufficient to increase its height without losing stability (explanations and mathematical proofs available in case required).
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 19, 2009 8:53 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Joseph Afreddy | | Let us explore other options as well, we have the ISTD which is a good option but as the discussion progresses we uncover some problems that are surmountable and some which appear to be unsurmountable. Let us not forget that we are planning a body that is pan India and that would mean chapters in other cities and other states that may have their own ideas.
Could we consider using the members of the trainers forum, some committee members of the ISTD, some of the toastmasters and form an entirely new body that has its own agenda. We can of course use the ISTD as the body that certifies the trainers have the theoritical knowledge, the toastmasters as the body that certifies that the trainers can deliver a module and the finer points can be covered by the committee members of the new body.
JosephPrivate Reply to Joseph Afreddy |
| Aug 19, 2009 10:11 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | exactly . . . almost! Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 19, 2009 1:10 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Jo Verde | | As most of you know I am an outsider..having said that, you also know I have a special place in my heart for both training and India...I have watched this thread develop and would throw out my comments for your consideration..
It seems to me that many are prepared to jump into becoming a member.branch.wing...call it whatever you like of ISTD...from reading, I am not sure that all avenues have been researched to determine the best approach for the goal, and further that the goals have not been clearly defined and agreed to by those who would take membership.
I respectfully submit that I might describe what I read as "jumping the gun"...and that perhaps you might consider the start up as project management endevor..with a core guidance team to research the best approach for the long term goals...it may very well be that becoming part and parcel of ISTD is the ultimate recommendation, however at this point that is opinion which doesnt appear to be substantiated by fact...
To me the very first step is to nail down the short and long terms goals, obtain some kind of agreement or consensus if that is what you choose, action steps, accountabilities, determine alliances, partnerships, affiliations etc...
My experience has been that when a task looks like an overwhelming undertaking that easiest approach to take is breaking in down into project chunks to work your way thro the process...anyway..this is just my observation and I can see Soeb smiling...
Thank you for the opportunity of commenting
Best Regards
Jo
Private Reply to Jo Verde |
| Aug 19, 2009 3:07 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | surely you mean grinning, don't you Jo?
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 20, 2009 5:53 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Jo Verde | | No my dear..I mean smiling...I have seen you smiling you know..not often but that big gregarious smile that one doesn't easily forget...hope you are well..it has been far too long my friend...J. Private Reply to Jo Verde |
| Aug 20, 2009 6:49 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | well as well can be, i must be . . . . thanks for bringing on that smile y'all love so well!
ok guys, here goes!
a quick note on:
how organizations (associations, societies, chambers, clubs,etc.) come to be . . . . (flip to see how not)
how organizations evolve into institutions . . . . (flip to see how not)
check out with successful organizations around and a commonality will be visible . . .
an organization DOES NOT come into existence like, "ok guys lets organize. we are an organization and we have a job to do. here i am, your friendly neighborhood president, and here is my agenda, yada, yada, yada; now i want every one of you to go out there and do this, and this and that and this too!"
an organization DOES NOT come into existence like, "ho hum! now that we are here together what do we do? . . . aha! eureka! thank you everybody for attending. now repeat after me and remember that we shall all never work unless we are paid in advance. we shall put up a list for all to see and know whom we work for and on what terms!"
an organization is seeded through a perceived need. the need perception is a collective process. such a process is possible only through fraternal empathy that is in turn built by the removal of distrust and the acknowledgment of the fact that prosperity and abundance are natural and enterprise is a conduit for the flow of the same.
in one such body, that i work intimately with, we recall with pride and contentment how over two decades ago four men noticed sat in a reception room waiting for the appointed time to meet the purchaser at their customers office. they observed that they ran into each other with regularity at more than one reception area.
one amongst them broke into a smile when his eyes crossed another. next time they exchanged cards. the other two followed suit. one of them then invited the others to his office for a cup of tea one evening. naturally they wanted to know if there was an agenda. being entrepreneurs (naturally adventurous) they agreed to meet.
the ice was broken and they met a few times. not one amongst the four had an organized ASSOCIATION remotely in his thoughts. they talked about family and technology trends. they talked about regulatory bodies (common subject of importance in the licence raj of yore) and shared thoughts on how as small scale businesses they were dependent on large businesses as customers and also as suppliers. they realized that their "sandwiched feeling" was a COMMON THREAD.
hanging onto this slender thread they discussed the subject eagerly like a new toy (gizmo for this era) with some others whom they came across. they noticed that whenever they attended new product launch functions hosted by tehir suppliers they saw each other in a different social mood and role. at those functions they were not competitors. instead they realized their collective strength as they saw that the sum of the parts of their small purchases became a big whole for their large industry supplier. they understood why the big brother really wanted them to be with him.
gradually they found themselves looking forward to the tea club sittings every once in few days and the number had now swollen from four to fourteen of which at any time 8 or ten would be around. they started pooling in the costs of tea and snacks (as they had done years ago on student budgets).
having found comfort in their evolved togetherness they started talking outside the group about how they enjoyed meeting.
businesses on the extended ends of their supply chain (and on the fringes too) started suggesting that they regularize their relationship by formalizing it.
the rest is history and the organization i refer to has members across the country working together to serve their customer.
keep writing all . . . . this thread can seed good ideas and benefit existing setups and startups too . . . . at any point in time should it be expedient to meet offline, these thoughts from everybody here can help too.
whereas i remain busy with many things, i agree to make myself available to support and align with any good thoughts for the larger good.
thanks all for being here and do stay round on this thread please . . . . .
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 22, 2009 6:51 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
udayan salim banerjee | | very well put soebh. level headed and practical, you make a lot of sense. Private Reply to udayan salim banerjee |
| Aug 22, 2009 6:56 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
udayan salim banerjee | | very well put soeb, level headed and practical, you make a lot of sense. Private Reply to udayan salim banerjee |
| Aug 22, 2009 11:13 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | thanks usb . . . nothing new . . . just recounting of experiences Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Sep 08, 2009 12:20 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | http://www.ryze.com/postdisplay.php?confid=1537&messageid=3420030
Would throw in an observation on my part...seems to be a link or natural tie in to another thread..."forming an association of trainers"...In my view, for whatever it is worth...part of a mandate of a trainers association might be to monitor and take appropriate action with both training providers and non payment for services provided
...just a thought...
regards Jo
http://www.ryze.com/postdisplay.php?confid=1537&messageid=3420078
NO Jo.
an association is not meant to regulate and monitor the client who retains a member.
an association is not a trade union that acts as a service restrainer.
an association is not an an advisory body for its members. it cannot be one because its officers can not be dis/un-interested because they are potential competitors and likely beneficiaries of the fallout.
an association is not an arbitration body. it cannot be because an arbitration body necessarily enjoys the confidence of all the parties interested in the dispute. the association would be required to identify and stand by the interest of its member first.
an association is not an accreditation body - unless mandated by its charter as approved and accepted under the law of the land - to rank or grade clients. in a free market globalized economy, market forces and the laws of supply and demand are the best regulators by ensuring that every dog eats every other dog - arf, arf!
likewise a good association must not venture to rank or grade its members without first having a set of codes and standards and a process for auditing, validating and certifying. needless to add that after adoption, the administration of such a system is a herculean task in itself. caution must be exercised too in that, for the association must not father Frankenstein.
an association can/may however share knowledge and disseminate ideas.
such knowledge can forewarn members about the pitfalls of loose working without a proper agreement in place. such knowledge can educate members about how greed - survival instinct manipulated into panic by a clever purchaser - can lead to ruin.
an association can TRAIN trainers through lectures, seminars, workshops and other devices, to convert them from a haggard - almost cadaverous - bunch of moon-shining freelancers into a respectable and dignified set of distinguished practicing professionals worthy of emulation, and maybe even adulation!
an association can set up a model code of conduct for their own members along with guidelines on recommended good commercial practices. it would be neither possible nor expedient to enforce such a code and it would be best to leave the same to be recommendatory. any attempt to enforce any regulation would immediately open to doors of the association to a combination of corruption and factionalism.
an association can create some internal norms to impress on its members about the unworthiness of unfair trade practices including but not limited to poaching of clients and resources - of course the rider would here be the elusive and subjective definitions or terms like poaching!
having said so much i shall leave the current thread to the purpose for which it was created and recommend that this rather deviant subject of association be pursued on http://www.ryze.com/posttopic.php?topicid=1042191&confid=1537 . . . . here the discussion intended by Indumathi may be permitted to continue with the abandon it possesses and deserves . . . .
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Sep 08, 2009 12:36 am | | formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | NOTE: -
the intention of this thread (and all my posts on this thread) is introspective for the trade . . . . to create a discussion that may add value, create flesh, infuse blood and provide spine to any association that may already exist and/or be intended to be created . . . .
it is not my intention to damage any prospective and positive efforts made by any trainers to 'organize'.
i am available to comment on and support any endevor in this direction. if information in my possession can add value to any effort then it will please me ever so much.
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Sep 08, 2009 12:51 am | | re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Jo Verde | | I am a little irked that my observation and the possibilities that may be discussed in any organization are rejected without thought...A simple NO Jo...doesnt cut it for me...Like you Soeb...I simply offer my comments to fire thought, discussion and consideration...I may or may not agree with your dictionary definition of association...perhaps that finite description and finality should be defined and documented by those wishing to form.
Having worked with associations,unionized groups and many other semantically named organizations, I can assure you there are a great number of similarities and of course subtle differences.
And you dear Soeb would know a directive of No, simply fuels my fire...smiling sweetly..
I respectfully withdraw from the discussion for at this point I am no longer sure my comments add value
Best Regards to all and good luck...JoPrivate Reply to Jo Verde |
| Sep 08, 2009 1:35 am | | re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | any withdrawal is uncalled for.
NO is not a rejection . . . . it is a qualified statement . . . . let us continue to to offer contradicting opinions without conflicting "OUR" objective . . . .
valuing your continuing friendship, i pray for your early return to this thread, Jo.
thanks in advance.
*smiling*
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Jun 02, 2010 11:42 am | | re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Arun Chitlangia | | Your idea of association has taken shape.
The 1st meeting is on 13th June 2010 at VKATS, Khar West, Mumbai.
Please send mail to arun.chitlangia@gmail.com for further information.Private Reply to Arun Chitlangia |
| Aug 06, 2010 2:56 am | | re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | thanks Arun. Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 06, 2010 11:25 am | | re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Arun Chitlangia | | you are welcome,Soeb. Please consider becoming a member.
arun.chitlangia@gmail.comPrivate Reply to Arun Chitlangia |
| Aug 06, 2010 2:11 pm | | re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
SOEB FATEHI | | do tell us about the next meeting please . . .
Private Reply to SOEB FATEHI |
| Aug 09, 2010 6:36 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: formation of an association - of trainers! | # |
Udoy Narayan Ganguly | | Hi to all of you,
Apparently, I'm the latest entrant! Considering the interesting posts, I couldn't help but enter . Being in the same vocation, I'd like to meet the intellectuals in the field. When and where is the next meet? I'm all fired up!!
Regards,
Gangs
Private Reply to Udoy Narayan Ganguly |
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