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Global Warming TestViews: 324
Dec 03, 2009 8:07 amGlobal Warming Test#

Ron Sam
Take a simple 10 question Global Warming Test
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html

Your reward is documentation of the answers and
if you want a laugh

just watch Jon Stewart talk about Al Gore
http://economycollapse.blogspot.com/2009/12/jon-stewart-talks-climategate-al-gore.html

Private Reply to Ron Sam

Dec 05, 2009 2:09 pmre: Global Warming Test#

James Booth
.
Question 1:

Q. "Global warming" is a real phenomenon: Earth's temperature is increasing.

A. If I can still believe "science" currently my answer is "No, Earth's temperature is not increasing" - has not been for a handful of years; however, until recently it seemed to be, and in fact, Earth's temperature, as seems reasonable to expect, rises and falls the same as that of any other living body or organism; therefore, I have to answer, "Yes, "global warming IS a *real phenomenon* though not the only phenomenon."


The explanation which accompanies both answers to question 1:

" "Global Warming" is something that has been happening for a long time. The temperature of the earth has been increasing more or less continuously since the time of the cave man.

Approximately 18,000 years ago the earth began a gradual process of warming up c. Much of North America, Europe, and Asia lay buried beneath great sheets of glacial ice.

By about 15,000 years ago the earth had warmed sufficiently to halt the advance of glaciers, and sea levels worldwide began to rise.

By 8,000 years ago the land bridge across the Bering Strait was drowned, cutting off the migration of men and animals to North America.

Since the end of the Ice Age, Earth's temperature has risen approximately 16 degrees F and sea levels have risen a total of 300 feet! Forests have returned where once there was only ice.

From a geological perspective, global warming is the normal state of our accustomed natural world. Technically, we are in an "interglacial phase," or between ice ages. The question is not really if an ice age will return, but when.

Don't panic when you hear global alarmists warning the earth may have warmed almost 1 degree in the last 200 years. Although this still hasn't yet been proven, it is in fact exactly what should be happening if everything is normal.

If Global Warming stops, then you can start worrying! It means our warm interglacial phase is over and we may be heading into another Ice Age!"


... seems to me not well thought out, misleading, even if not intentionally so, in that it is incomplete.

"Global Warming" has been happening for a long time, agreed, and I will accept the argument that its latest cycle has lasted for about 18,000 years (after more than 100,000 years of Ice Ages), even though Earth is billions of years old, and Earth has not been in a "Ice Age" the majority of that time.

Ice core samples from Antarctica give us clues as to what has happened there going back about 60,000 years, but that is essentially "local data".

To determine overall atmospheric temperatures, changes in salinity, temperature of oceans, and sea level, along with changing conditions on land - drought and temperature cycles and more - we have to look elsewhere and we have to combine data taken from various *locales*.

If, "From a geological perspective, global warming is the normal state of our accustomed natural world," that is only because it is what we have been used to "in human memory" as the human species has evolved, but that is not to say "Global Warming" IS the "normal" or *natural* state of anything: it is until it changes, and change it will.


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Dec 05, 2009 3:02 pmre: Global Warming Test#

James Booth
.
Greenhouse gases:

"Greenhouse gases are gases in an atmosphere that absorb and emit radiation within
the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse
effect.[1] The main greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapor,
carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone.
... "
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas


- "Water vapor accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between
36% and 66% for water vapor alone, and between 66% and 85% when factoring in clouds."
- ibid.

... but do not be deluded to suppose that "water vapor" comprises 36 to 66 percent of the atmosphere.

While water vapor remains more or less constant, Carbon Dioxide, which makes up less than one tenth of one percent of Earth's atmosphere (considered a trace gas currently occurring at an average concentration of about 383 parts per million by volume or 582 parts per million by mass.), has no liquid state, accumulates from "overproduction" by man, and / or by volcanoes, until it is absorbed, during photosynthesis, or into seawater; ie. "carbon sink" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sink].

Carbon Dioxide "concentration varies seasonally (see graph at right) and also consi-
derably on a regional basis, especially near the ground. In urban areas concentrations
are generally higher and indoors they can reach 10 times background levels."
- ibid.

Attempts to scare "public awareness" come through use of statistics (omitting other statistics), such as:

"The total mass of atmospheric carbon dioxide is ... 3,000 gigatonnes"


"The [earth] atmosphere has a mass of about five quintillion (5x1018) kg"
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth

Someone want to convert that to "gigatonnes" ... ?

"Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon,
0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable
amount of water vapor, on average around 1%.

So oxygen - also a "greenhouse gas" - is almost a thousand times more prevalent in Earth's atmosphere.

Is there an economic advantage to outlawing oxygen ?

... or maybe I should not ask.


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Dec 05, 2009 10:20 pmre: re: Global Warming Test#

Thomas Holford
James Booth sayeth:

> If I can still believe "science" . . .

You are not the only person saying this . . .

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB40001424052748704107104574572091993737848.html

And I think society is going to discover that dis-belief of "science" is going to become a REALLY, REALLY big problem.


> Earth's temperature is not increasing" - has not been for a handful of years; however, until recently it seemed to be, and in fact, Earth's temperature, as seems reasonable to expect, rises and falls the same as that of any other living body or organism;


There is also a scientific debate as to whether or not it is even possible to measure the temperature of the earth. The question is: how do you define the "temperature of the earth".

What the "global warming" crowd seems to mean by the earths temperature is really just some sort of average value of all of their temperature measuring stations. But this is very problematical because the population of temperature stations change overtime, and the local environments of temperature stations change. E.g. someone builds a dark asphalt parking lot right next to your thermometer. It significantly changes the measured temperatures.

So, the question of whether the earths temperature is increasing or not is NOT a simple question.

T. Holford

Private Reply to Thomas Holford

Dec 05, 2009 10:35 pmre: re: Global Warming Test#

Thomas Holford
James Booth sayeth:

> Greenhouse gases:

> "Greenhouse gases are gases in an atmosphere that absorb and emit radiation within
the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse
effect.[1] The main greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapor,
carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone.

Even the role of "greenhouse gases" is arguable.

Here are some references to a PEER REVIEWED paper published by Hungarian researcher Ferenc Miskolczi which was published about two years ago.

It's arcane stuff and not light reading, but what Miskolczi basically says is:

A. The mathematical equations that climate scientists have been using to model the earths atmosphere are WRONG; and

B. Using the CORRECT mathematical equations shows that the atmosphere automatically adjusts for increases in CO2 by corresponding adjustments in other greenhouse gases which have the effect of keeping the atmosphere in a stable balance.

Fears of "tipping points" and runaway global warming are unfounded.

Everyone go back to your homes. There's nothing more to see.

http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm

http://heliogenic.blogspot.com/2009/05/jennifer-marohasy-on-fenenc-miskolczi.html

http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/05/the-work-of-ferenc-miskolczi-part-1/


T. Holford

Private Reply to Thomas Holford

Dec 06, 2009 3:30 pmre: re: Global Warming Test#

James Booth
.
"the question of whether the earths temperature is increasing or not
is NOT a simple question"

Not simple at all.

"Earth's temperature" is a combination of atmospheric temperature (which at best perhaps can only be measured as an average given that upper atmospheric temperature is very different than atmospheric temperature close to land or water surface - without counting clouds, that is); of ocean temperature, which also varies, not only in difference from pole to equator, but "at depth" as ocean currents mix cold and warm, warm water rises and cold water falls; and land temperatures which depend on the amount of vegetative cover, proximity to water, subterranean heating, and other factors.

In other words, to measure "Earth's temperature" is to take an average temperature of at least three different average temperatures.

All of which might give us a "good guess" at any point in time ...
_______


"... the atmosphere automatically adjusts for increases in CO2 by
corresponding adjustments in other greenhouse gases which have the
effect of keeping the atmosphere in a stable balance."


This is where I try to keep from laughing - at least not too hard.

I am reminded daily by someone:

"There IS a God!"

My "version" of God may be a bit different, but basically I believe in a Creator, and that Creator has a Plan - the Creation IS a Plan, if you will.

I have faith in that - not that I really have much choice, do I ?

... but so, here we are talking about one planet, when the entire Universe of "billions and billions of stars" IS that *Plan* and has worked well without our fine minds to guide it for *billions and billions of years*

Earth has been here also for *billions and billions of years* and it is only through our having, as a species, been born in this environment, PRE-adapted to this environment if you will, that we are able to physically survive here at all, eh ?

... yet, while we DO have serious *responsibilities* regarding what we do while we ARE here; ie. "Don't foul your own nest" - Earth, as an eco-system, or as a living organism, is quite capable of "rolling over" on the human (or any other) species that is unwilling, or unable, to adapt to the WAY of Nature itself.

Where I sit, that ability and willingness to *adapt* - to clean up my own mess and to leave something for the next person who comes along - is at the top of any list of ways I can *worship* Creator.


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

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