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| | The Un-Marketing Network is not currently active and cannot accept new posts | | Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | Views: 1814 | | Jul 18, 2005 4:28 pm | | Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
Dean H. | | So, what do you think of the above statement?
I've read that marketing in its current form no longer serves a function as it once did. Al Ries, bestselling author of "The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding", says that advertising is considered more of an art form nowadays as opposed to being able to serve a utilitarian function as it once did.
We live in a cluttered market and the typical marketing methods no longer work on our target audience. They say that PR is the new and more effective way to build a brand and a business.
Are there any startegic marketers or PR people here who can shed some light on this? Have you found Public Relations to be the engine that helps drive your business? Would you consider PR to be the new marketing?
If you've got a new product or idea and need to get the word out, PR is probably the best way to get the word out there. There is no better way, to brand a business, than to rely on the credibility of others. You think???
DeanPrivate Reply to Dean H. | | Jul 22, 2005 3:07 am | | re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
John Anghelache | | Well, the thing is that most people who use marketing
and advertising rely on image-building.
The "utilitarian" or practical methods of direct
response are largely ignored. However, for the most
part, they are the most effective.
It really does not matter if you have a small or
large business. Direct response marketing done right
creates immediate sales and exposure. Plus, since it's
trackable, you can determine what is working and what
isn't and modify your approach.
There's no way to do that with untrackable image ads
that are nothing more than entertainment. Totally void
of salesmanship.
I have several new products and they are all being
marketed using direct response strategies. Private Reply to John Anghelache | | Jul 22, 2005 4:26 pm | | re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
Karri Flatla | | Hi Dean,
Personally, I like the idea of "relationship marketing" which I think is the direction Internet marketing is going. People are bombarded with marketing messages all day (something like 2000 a day I have heard?!?!) and they are tired of being "sold to" by both individuals and faceless organizations. At least I am. And as more people start doing business online, the expectation of trust building first, and selling second, will grow.
In other words, if you are going to pay someone for a service or product but you know you can never meet him/her face to face, you would rather develop a relationship with that person first. Then you both feel like a win-win is already happening before any moneys are transacted and the sale should happen naturally from there.
Of course ... direct marketing and other "traditional" methods of advertising should still compliment your relationship marketing because you want to remind people of what you have to offer, always. And done right, these methods can still be personalized.
Karri Flatla
snap! virtual assistance inc.
Don't just outsource. Outsmart.
http://www.snap-va.comPrivate Reply to Karri Flatla | | Jul 22, 2005 10:43 pm | | re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Not the Whole Truth! | # | 
Dean Jones | |
Hey Dean,
Al and Laura Ries wrote a book called "The Fall of Advertising and the Rise of PR", which is where they discussed the idea that PR should be used to build a brand, and Advertising should be used to maintain it after it is established.
Sounds interesting, but thousands of dotcom companies spent $100s of millions in PR fees, and how many made it to "Brand" status. Not many.
On the other hand, millions of small businesses spend $100s of millions per year on advertising that attempts to look like what Fortune 500 companies do. Wrong again.
Marketing (which includes the PR function and advertising) will work for any small business, if it is done correctly.
How you say? Well, that will take many more posts to explain.
Cheers,
Dean Jones,
co-moderator, MarketingYOU on Ryze
Private Reply to Dean Jones | | Jul 23, 2005 3:56 pm | | re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Not the Whole Truth! | # | 
John Snyder | | Major News Flash-The Ad Industry Is Dead!
The Ad Industry Has To Understand That It Is Not In The Ad Business Anymore!
Advertising is at a critical point not only because of the past year, but because of the past five years. Customers are smarter now due to the advent of digital technology and the structural change of Advertising on a Global scale. These big changes has created a tremendous period of inovation and reinvention. The Ad industry has to realize it is no longer in the Ad business, it is in the Entertainment Industry.
For those of us who understand the core competency, this is a time of tremendous opportunity. Our value lies in the ability to be able to come up with Creative Advertising and Art Forms. In many ways, the business is the brand. People tell me all the time that there are no new ideas, just ones that have been tried and rehashed. I for one have proved everyone wrong with my effective and exciting , exclusive new Wordsearch Ads. They work! But this thread is not to extol me or my dynamic unique form of Advertising, it is about you. Are you doing all you can do to be inventive in your own creation of Ads or are you plodding down the same old road.? Are you putting out Ads that look pretty but do nothing to increse a customers image or custom base. Whether or not you agree with me, believe this, entertainment will play a huge part in the future of brnds.
The challenge remains however, the key selling point of our industry is the Talent and attitude of our people and their staff. During this time of great change, how do you keep your people motivated about their work? Are they enthused? Are they excited about their work? They need to be! It’s easy to believ that you business is successful and working because you have several clients, but that is not why it is working. The only reason it works, is because you have talented people, hard at work. And these talented people have the need to have their egos fed. They need to be Creative and need to explore new avenues within the craft and agency. Remember winning ideas are made not born. Encourage Creativity and grow.
John Snyder
Prof Wordsearch
Private Reply to John Snyder | | Jul 27, 2005 2:54 pm | | re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Not the Whole Truth! | # | 
Nick Roy | | John,
Advertising is not just dead, it has been corrupted by the loony left in Hollywood to promote smut.
I agree with your statement that the Ad business is now in the Entertainment business. With this desire to push the limits, the Advertising agencies are destroying the values that parents try to instill in their children. Why do you see this smut on tv now?
Company CEO's and Ad agency execs see what the movie industry is doing and they want to copy that in their ads. You have Car's Junior promoting smut. Their ad is featuring porn star Paris Hilton using sexual innuendo to promote hamburgers.
The latest is by Warner Bros. with their production of the Dukes of Hazzard movie. They took a family show and completely trashed it with sexual innuendo and profanity.
It is companies like these that are destroying the values in our children.
These advertising agencies need to be more responsible and keep the smut off of their ads. It is still up to the advertising agencies to produce "RESPONSIBLE" ads. They can still be entertaining but they need to be rated G. Private Reply to Nick Roy | | Jul 27, 2005 6:44 pm | | re: re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Not the Whole Truth! | # | 
Angelo Cerase | | Actually Nick, you brought up a great example regarding Advertising vs PR.
Carl's Jr's ad with Paris Hilton on its own would have had little impact. There are plenty of ads around with half naked women. On its own it would not have been worth the high fees they paid Paris Hilton.
However, once the Advertising Dept. partnered up with the PR department, things took off.
Where did most people hear of this commercial? Not on TV, but on the news. Someone sent a press release to the media outlets regarding a religious leader (or someone) denouncing the new commercial.
And the media outlets ate it up. Why not? It had the two things they love - controversy and a famous person.
This caused a flood of people (mostly Carl's Jr's target market) to visit the website to view the video. Then, while online, they emailed their friends about it. Causing this little commercial to be viewed by WAY more people than it normally would have been. As well, this little fad was further helped by the increased vocal opinions against the commerical. Thus letting more people know about it, and perhaps increasing visits to the website. People talking about it, either praising it or denouncing it is what made this advertising campaign a success. People can't ignore the 'forbidden fruit'.
In fact, Nick, it seems that Carl's Jr. was counting on people like you to to talk about it to others and introduce it in conversation.
As far as saying this was from the 'loony left' in Hollywood does not seem right. This was from a company eager to promote their new product to their target audience in the best means possible. The decision to create this sleazy commerical was made by rich people to make themselves richer. Money was the main factor.
I'm not an expert in US politics, but I'll bet most of these rich people that approved that commerical voted Right, not Left.
But anyways, it seems that Advertising is not dead, never was, never will be. PR is good on its own, but without advertising helping get the info out there, people will ignore it. Advertising partnered with PR makes something that is much more than the sum of its parts, as shown with the Carl's Jr. commerical.
AngeloPrivate Reply to Angelo Cerase | | Aug 03, 2005 12:54 pm | | re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
Jaime Buckley | | Karri, I wonder if that's why I had such a large jump in my web site numbers? My comic book site put a wall between me and the reader...shielded me from any personal exposure, by living specifically through my characters.
However, when I changed a few of my pages, and included a photo of myself with my son (as an infant), as well as telling them some personal information about myself, I got an increase of 15,000+ people for that month---and it hasn't stopped. In fact, I get emails and compliments on how "personal" I get with my readers, responding to them, exchanging comments on the message boards, etc.
I think there is something powerful about this "relationship marketing". It's a made a HUGE difference in the reults of my site and sales.
Jaime Buckley
Creator of WANTED:HERO
http://wantedhero.comPrivate Reply to Jaime Buckley | | Aug 12, 2005 12:57 am | | re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
Lee Green | | Hello Dean,
Check this new concept out. You may find it of interest.
Homemade advertising and the real-life experience of consumers and brands.
coBRANDiT is building a network of creative people to whom brand sponsors can introduce new ideas and products in exchange for documentary video and authentic creativity; the results will be used in on-line media campaigns.
http://www.cobrandit.com
As an advocate of streaming video. I think the concept has potential.
Lee
http://www.helloworld.com/rd763
Private Reply to Lee Green | | Aug 12, 2005 1:29 am | | re: re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
Justin Murphy | | Lee,
That site requests that you only send in videos in Quicktime format. I'm have Windows XP which means I'm only able to create videos in Windows Media Video format.
Do you know of any sites like coBRANDIT that can accomodate videos in the WMV format? Private Reply to Justin Murphy | | Aug 12, 2005 3:36 am | | re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Creating video files | # | 
Ronni Rhodes | | You can create video files in the Quicktime format on your XP machine, Justin. You can actually create them in any format you choose!:-)
It's possible that you might have to pay for some of the compression software - I believe QT Pro costs around $30.00 - but many compression programs are absolutely free.
Take a look here: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/player/resources.html
Good luck!:-)
Ronni Rhodes
http://www.wbcimaging.com
Make Your Marketing Memorable with Rich Media
Private Reply to Ronni Rhodes | | Aug 18, 2005 4:18 pm | | re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
Kathryn Spencer | | Side note: Jaime, I love your site!
Dean(s), John(s), Karri,& Jamie,
I just wanted to add my 2 cents into the mix..
Along with relationship marketing, I think way too many companies miss out on keeping the customers or clients they already have! I think we can all agree that the average customer wants to feel appreciated.
Quote from "www.CardsourWay.biz":
Consider that two-thirds of customers switch from one company to another because of a perceived attitude of indifference from the former company. It makes sense to focus as much attention on customer retention as you do on customer acquisition.
Most individuals and consumers that I know would rather pick one company that shows they care and then just stay with them! (verses bouncing around looking to save some extra $$$)Private Reply to Kathryn Spencer | | Aug 20, 2005 12:49 am | | re: re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # |
Rhonda Vickers | | Couldn't agree with you more, Kathryn. Making and keeping relationships will only enhance your business as well as your personal life. After all, isn't that what 'Network' marketing is all about, relationships?
By the way, I'm new here. Joined a while back, but then got sidetracked. Decided it's time to get involved! I've been involved with Network Marketing for about 3 years.
Rhonda
http://besuccessful.mentoringforfree.com
Private Reply to Rhonda Vickers | | Aug 21, 2005 7:11 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Not the Whole Truth! | # | 
Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Angelo,
I take it you believe that the "buzz" Carl's Junior created using Paris Hilton to sell hamburgers - wheher you like the ad or not - was well-orchestrated. That means it was no accident that the Carl's Junior website got a lot of hits. It's no coincidence that the news media picked up on the commercial the way they did. My only question is did Carl's Junior sell more hamburgers as a result of all the hype that was generated? Is there anything about Paris's commercial that would somehow lend itself to the purchase of a hamburger?
Personally, when I saw Paris's commercial shown on the Fox News Channel, I was saddened. Here was a woman engaging in self-exploitation to sell hamburgers. How pathetic! This is a far cry from the famous (and clever) Wendy's "Where's the Beef?" commercial with that little old lady.
Lamar Morgan Private Reply to Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Aug 22, 2005 4:33 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Not the Whole Truth! | # |
Angelo Cerase | | Was the Carl Jr. ad effective, even though it was in bad taste? Sadly, I think it was.
Was there anything about the commercial that would directly lead to the purchase of a burger? Probably not. When I saw the commerical (from the website) I laughed at how absurd it was. Sure, the commerical had little to do with the actual product, but I don't think that was the point of the commercial. I feel that the point was to create a 'buzz' about Carl Jr. in order for people to consider that fast food chain when they were out and hungry. Which is the same thing that their new hamburger was designed to do as well. This is similar to how car companies create 'concept cars' in order for customers to gawk at them, and then choose to purchase whatever 4-door sedan they are selling. Like the absurd Paris Hilton commcerial, the fact that Carl Jr. sells a disgusting large burger that few will purchase leads to people talking about it and perhaps choosing Carl Jr regardless of whether they will purchase that burger or something else.
"Flagship" products (and flagship commericals) create a feeling about a company that has a trickle-down effect for all their products. For example, a cousin from Italy and her boyfriend were somehow very impressed that I drove a Chevrolet Lumina (a low-end sedan), because to them a Chevrolet is somehow a premium brand, due to the Chevy Corvette. Few will purchase the Corvette, but the subconscious feelings that the Corvette creates will help increase the 'buzz' about Chevy and most likely lead to increased sales of the boring 4-door sedans.
Likewise, the links that Carl Jr. has created, so people have the same feelings/buzz about Carl Jr.'s regular menu that they have about Paris Hilton and their new huge burger, even though they don't care about Paris Hilton, nor have any intention of purchasing that particular burger. Somehow that makes Carl Jr. stand out among all the other fast food places, and therefore makes that ad campaign a success (unfortunately).
AngeloPrivate Reply to Angelo Cerase | | Sep 01, 2005 4:33 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive - Not the Whole Truth! | # |
Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Angelo,
I don't think anyone would disagree that Paris Hilton's performance in the Carl's Jr. commercial makes the commercial stand out. But, is being a "stand out" commercial always a good thing? Yes, I will agree that commercial created a "buzz" for Carl's Jr. But, is there such a thing as a "bad buzz?" Personally, I was repulsed not enticed by that commercial. Before that Paris Hilton commercial, Carl's Jr. was just another hamburger joint. Since the commercial, Carl's Jr. has become something of a joke to me. I would not even bother to walk in there.
Lamar MorganPrivate Reply to Lamar Morgan 954-603-7901 | | Sep 05, 2005 6:30 pm | | re: Advertising is dead, but PR is alive. | # | 
Garland Coulson | | First off, I believe that advertising the way that companies used to do it is
either dead or in critical condition. Bombarding people with 1,000s of
television, radio & newspaper advertising messages per day means that eventually
they develop an immunity to it and tune them out. But not all advertising
is equal and some advertising has proven to work very well when you have a
system to track results.
One benefit that Internet advertising has is that you can at least which of
your ads bring you traffic if you use a tracking system. This way you can
keep the ones that work and dump the ones that don't.
I started a free advertising system for Internet Explorer and Firefox called
the Free Traffic Bar. As you
can imagine, I see a lot of ads from my members to approve in a day! Most
people just don't get it - their messages are the usual "make money fast"
messages that people tune out. But some people to "get" it. Their
messages are intriguing and make you want to learn more. The click through
rates for the various ads are very interesting as the people who write better
ads get way more traffic whereas the people who don't understand just use up
credits for nothing.
Public relations is very powerful, but most companies don't understand how to
work with it, so they just buy advertising. Instead, they should be
working with a PR professional who can demonstrate the benefits of a good PR
campaign.
Garland Coulson, "The E-Business Tutor"
Market while you surf!
FREE Traffic and Research Toolbar for FireFox and Internet Explorer
http://www.freetrafficbar.com Private Reply to Garland Coulson | | |
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