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| | The Minding Your Own Business Network is not currently active and cannot accept new posts | | Do You Think we are idiots? | Views: 1073 | | Apr 30, 2006 2:32 am | | Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Andrew Barnes | | How many times do I have to read appeals for help. Wanting to help. to just have a veiled promotion thrown at me?
If you want our help, great. You are welcome.
If you think, you can promote your latest, about to fail, scheme, through a question, think again.
Do think we are idiots?
Grow up and start being professional.
Metta.
AndyE
"The Honest Marketer".
http://www.etribes.com/britwebPrivate Reply to Andrew Barnes | | Apr 30, 2006 2:53 am | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Edward W. Smith, AFC | | Thank you Andy!!!! Some of the bloggers must be brain dead to have the unadulterated gall to post some of the garbage I've seen.It makes me think they're looking for people whose head has been buried in a hole for the last fifty years.I've noticed the two distinct extremes;very professional vs very unprofessional and stupid. And would you believe????chain letters!!!! Give me a break!!!!! Private Reply to Edward W. Smith, AFC | | Apr 30, 2006 3:45 am | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Michael R Clayton | | Hi Andy Edward,
Guys you got to think that most people trying to market online are new and possibly never sold anything in their life. They are just following the marketing advice given to them by the opportunities they join.
I am in many good programs and personally help people to join my downline.
Guys its no good just being a knocker. We need to personally give these people some good advice.
I make my own pages to help people and would rather personally advise a few people through community contacts than to send them to autoresponder messages which most online companies do.
If you have any possitive marking advice let me know.
I have a page aimed at beginners which I send my friends and affiliates to.
See http://www.helptosucceed.love-au.com/
Regards Michael Clayton
http://www.whitepage.com.au/rexiedexie/8709Private Reply to Michael R Clayton | | Apr 30, 2006 3:52 am | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Alex Blom | | I think I can agree with you here, but as Michael stated, some of these people merely think this is the correct thing to do and may need more advice.
If you were however referring to the people who consciously do this only to try and pull in suckers then yes, I can agree with you. (Especially some of those evil MLM schemes!) Private Reply to Alex Blom | | Apr 30, 2006 4:40 am | | re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | Hi Alex, Michael, Edward & Andy...
Excellent opinions guys. And Yes, I do believe some people "have had their head in a hole.." "or never sold a thing in their life.."
So I Agree as well!
I believe education is indeed the very best solution if they will open up and allow it to flow in. Isn't this less than 1% of the people though? (open-minded)
It is foolish to "hook anyone" on a false truth for any program or business as we all would be wasting our own time, much less their's. Life is to short to attempt to insult other people's intelligence.
Truth, facts and scoreboards can never be changed. Altered, but not changed.
You know what really gets me though is the fact "to many people have that false believe
:I get me a web site, I am going to be rich:
O my gawd !!!
The web is still in it's infancy. Desktops and the sort will be dinosaurs in 3 to 5 years.
Nevertheless, Business always has and always will be a "relationship"
Those who do not or will not pick up the phone (phone fear) are doomed from the git go, and when we interview new prospective partners, if phone fear is an issue with them, we politely exit the conversation at that "dis-qualifying point" and wish them the very best with all they do... sincerely!
There exists no business in existence "sign up, sit back, do nothing and rake in the dough." in which is legal.
Cheers Fellas!!!
Debbie
http://WeCare.My123card.com
Private Reply to Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | Apr 30, 2006 5:14 am | | re: re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Alex Blom | | Could not have said it better myself. I have to laugh with all of the sites around that have helped people generate 6 figure incomes per month.
Now honestly, if I could do that, there is no way on this planet that I would blurt those tactics out step by step for anybody to follow, and worse yet, to compete with me! Unfortunately since joining Ryze pretty much 95% of the people I talk to and the 'business opportunities' sent to me are all of this calibre.Private Reply to Alex Blom | | Apr 30, 2006 7:28 am | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Pradeep Maheshwari | | Agree with you.
But how do we teach them to rein in?
They have really not been exposed to life and global happenings and the internet is free and open.
In their small and limited environment these people are considered brilliant and very upto date. Private Reply to Pradeep Maheshwari | | Apr 30, 2006 4:48 pm | | re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
T. D. Furbush | | Well Folks,
I'm about to play the devil's advocate here. There are several networking marketing programs that are legitimate and worthwhile. However, it is absolutely unethical to bamboozle people into joining a busines downline.
I'm in network marketing and we, like everyone else who is on a mission, surround ourselves with people and things that catapult us to our goals. Our environment that you may think is "small and limited", consist of people from all walks of life who think 'out of the box'. And because of our exposure to real "life and global happenings", we choose not to be "rein in". We control and direct our destiny.
It is possible to make huge monthly incomes depending on the industry. And yes, we "blurt those tactics out step-by-step"; not to create competition, but to create duplication. When I help my partners (downline), it helps me. It is a win-win situation.
When Larry King interviewed Donald Trump, King asked Trump what he would do if he lost his fortune. Trump responded, "I would do Network Marketing" (MLM). The audience hissed, laughed and some booed (sounds familiar?). Trump faced the audience and said, "This is why I'm here and you're there".
Make It A Great Day!Private Reply to T. D. Furbush | | Apr 30, 2006 5:46 pm | | re: re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | However, it is absolutely unethical to bamboozle people into joining a busines downline.
Hi TaWana...
You are so correct. Especially using false truths as I mentioned above.
A clear cut scoreboard that can't be changed ever, is the fact not only do we have people earning more than us in our downline, we have some upline earning over twice as much as their upline. Indicating indeed, duplication works by following the system in place instead of attempting to re-invent the wheel.
In our case, our monthly revenue (sales group) is over twice the size as our sponsor and of course he is proud of it instead of the corporate world where office politics would cause dissent amongst the partners.
Quoting Networking Times last month
"If one is not networking now creating a repeat residual income building a business now, they will be broke in 5 years."
HAPPY SUNDAY GUYS,
DebbiePrivate Reply to Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | Apr 30, 2006 7:36 pm | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Shari Thomas | | I just wish I could get a clue as to the context of this thread.
Andy, would you be so kind as to elaborate as to what caused you to create this thread? It would certainly provide all of us direction rather than appearing to stack ourselves up on one side of the line or the other.
Shari Thomas
http://key-2-success.netPrivate Reply to Shari Thomas | | Apr 30, 2006 11:20 pm | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Rachel deHar | | Hi Andy,
Long time no hear.
I definitly agree with you Andy but at the same time, and as someone else pointed out, this is the only way they know how to pitch their companies. Due to lack of experience and following something that may be the universal trend in regards to the way the business is marketed, they know no better.
I guess as business owners we all love what we do and are passionate about our companies. This may also apply to many people in the businesses you have described Andy. They love what they do and are passionate about making it a success.
But I do understand your frustrations with it. :)
Take care,
PS. We will have to catch up very soon regarding profile.
Rachel deHar
Character Driven Marketing http://www.tamaralyster.net
Feel free to join my network "A Womens World" http://awomensworld-network.ryze.
Private Reply to Rachel deHar | | May 01, 2006 5:35 pm | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Andrew Barnes | | Yes,
I agree with much of what has been expressed here re: the kind of companies and the tactics they suggest.
My point, however, was reffering more to the way that networking is used by some (by no means all).
fo sure, much of the 'abuse' of networking comes from a confusion on the part of the people who have been bombarded with the 'get your name out there' kind of message.
In many situations, this is fine. We ahve all seen the software that 'blasts' your message out to Yahoo groups, for instance.
Anyone who has tried to find a Yahoo group to actually discuss marketing will know how difficult they are to find amongst all the 'advertising' groups.
I'm not referring to all groups, again, and I have found some that are good, but these are almost always via recommendation.
Many people seem to regard networking sites, like Ryze, as advertising forums, whilst I know there are some that know very well the difference, but simply refuse to adjust their approach.
Sometimes, kindly trying to 'educate' and 'inform' seems to do very little. I have repeatedly tried.
Occasionally, I feel a need to just tell it as it is. Veiled advertising annoys me. Period. The reason it still goes on doesn't change how I feel about it.
If I do something out of ignorance, that annoys another, I am pleased to know the fact, so that I can look at whether what I have done needs adjustment.
Networking is about building relationships and thereby having people already 'wearm' to your business. If networking is part of your strategy, then it is actaully detrimental to make such posts as mentioned.
Metta.
AndyE
"The Honest Marketer".
http://www.etribes.com/britwebPrivate Reply to Andrew Barnes | | May 01, 2006 7:23 pm | | re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Gary Stewart | | AndyE,
How is this then, someone responds to a post (as I am now) and at the end simply states a USP or something. Is that acceptable?
Gary Stewart
The Stewart Group
Publishing & PhotographyPrivate Reply to Gary Stewart | | May 01, 2006 9:21 pm | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Andrew Barnes | | Gary,
No. I'm not referring to signatures, that, depending on the rules of the network (some don't allow them) are actually helpful and I welcome them.
If someone has impressed me with their posting, I will often click on a signature URL to find out what they are involved in. It is like handing over a business card after having an enjoyable chat.
If the I 'warmed' to the person during the conversation, I would keep the business card, even if I didn't see any immediate use for their services.
If however, the chat was simply a positioning to canvass, I am much less likely to keep it.
If there wasn't even an attempt to converse, but a 'Here's my card'. I won't even look at it.
A useful, informative posting, or a legitimate request for help, that everyone might benefit from hearing the answers to, followed by a signature allows me to find out more abouot the person, if I so choose.
No problem with that.
Metta.
AndyE
"The Honest Marketer".
http://www.etribes.com/britwebPrivate Reply to Andrew Barnes | | May 01, 2006 11:06 pm | | re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Gary Stewart | | In that case, I completely support your position. But, and a really big but it is, what if the network is to do or get business in or from.
Then I beleive thet a, "Hi, I'm Gary and I do photographic work for small businesses, please let me know if you need anything." should be acceptable.
It depends on the network, and on your network, you set the rules.
GaryPrivate Reply to Gary Stewart | | May 01, 2006 11:08 pm | | re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Audrey Okaneko | | Andy,
I think people are just people. I would like to share a story with you. About 6 years ago I was invited to a clothing party. The host was one of my friends and the clothing sounded so like me. It was wash and wear, no ironing, and I was told it packed without wrinkling. I really did like the clothing. I ordered a couple of outfits, thanked the direct sales representative and left.
Well, apparantly, the direct sales representative after the guests left asked the hostess (my friend) to tell her about the guests. My friend mentioned I had been in direct sales for many many years. Apparantly she also told her about a trip I had earned.
I got a phone call from the direct sales representative. I wasn't here. I did call her back, thinking she needed more information about my order. I did not reach her, and left a message. The 2nd time she called, she did not reach me again. I was now getting irritated. Why not just tell me what she needs on my answering machine and then I can get back to her. This was the EXACT message I left. I told her to let me know what her question was and I'd get back to her. The next morning my phone rang right about 7 a.m. My heart stopped. Phones ringing that early are never good news. Well, it was the direct sales representative wanting to talk to me about joining her business. To say I was angry would be an understatement. To say I was completely apalled would be an understatement.
I called my FRIEND, told her what I thought, apologized and told her I was cancelling my order. Yes, I was pretty darn mad.
Ok, I have to share one more story. Online, I subscribed to an ezine. I enjoyed it. I liked the articles. Then one day I got an email from the ezine editor. This email was not an ezine. It was a sales ad. It was a really poorly written sales ad. The link was an affiliate link. This ezine editor abused his relationship with me, to try and make a buck. I unsubscribed. I guess many others did also, as a few months later his website was gone. Totally gone. That one email destroyed what he had spent quite a long time building.
In groups, we also find a wide variety of people. Some push the rules. Some don't understand the rules and some choose to purposely ignore the rules. Offline, we scan the newspaper looking for those articles that hold our interest. Online, we scan through boards seeking topics and posts that hold our interest.
So to answer your question about wondering if folks think you're an idiot. Well, some probably do think they can outsmart you, and some truly meant no offense.
Audrey
Beginner Scrapbooking Private Reply to Audrey Okaneko | | May 01, 2006 11:34 pm | | re: re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | Dear Audrey...
Excellent story indeed, especially the ezine.
We are subscribed to a few ourselves and 1 or 2 do have a sales link in the bottom, yet we knew that when we subscribed. Excellent information so we roll with the flow so to speak.
I can indeed understand that you were irritated not only for the 7 am phone call but also for the ezine attempt to make a sale without you requesting the information.
Even as Hawaii is 6 hours behind us, in the time zone world, we never phone anyone before 10 am, their time.
That is indeed very rude to say the least.
Ready for a funny one?
A lady joined our bizness and wanted to add on a family member who was off to college. We suggested an email to the company, yet she was not comfortable with that so we suggested she fax in the info.
Her question was "Did I get one in my kit?" (fax machine)
I had to replace my keyboard that day because I was taking a swallow of ice tea when she asked.
We judge not what they cannot do, but coach them with what they can do!
People are indeed people and we love it. If it wasn't for the variety of personalities, it would awfulling boring, wouldn't it?
I think the one thing people tend to forget most of all is in fact there exists a LIVE human being receiving your email(s) and not a robot!
HAPPY MAY EVERYONE !!!
Debbie
http://EveryoneBenefits.com/fm Private Reply to Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | May 03, 2006 3:04 am | | re: re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Deena Gainor | | What a great topic. And Audrey, your stories were great. I can totally relate to that early call! My heart actually stops because I am expecting an emergency on the other end. And when I realize it's not and I was woken up for nothing...well, suffice it to say, I am less than thrilled.
But you also brought up an excellent point:
"Some push the rules. Some don't understand the rules and some choose to purposely ignore the rules."
It is really important to discern where people fall. The person who is completely uncaring about who is on the other side of his computer - worrying just about his wallet - is very different from the person who is just getting started, is extremely excited and wants to do his best.
And as Rachel said, they may be very passionate about their business. Just maybe a little unsure of how to proceed. I am pretty new to Ryze and was completely lost when I started. It took a lot of sitting back to see what was going on before I started joining in.
It would be great if we could easily discern the difference.
And Debbie...I couldn't stop laughing about your "Fax" story!
Have a great week, everyone.
Deena
http://www.myglobalgetaways.comPrivate Reply to Deena Gainor | | May 03, 2006 12:44 pm | | re: re: re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # |
Audrey Okaneko | | Several years ago I met a man online. He is really brilliant. He's worked as a business consultant forever and has been kind in sharing his knowledge.
About 3 months ago, he wrote me. He had a met a woman he felt could benefit from my experiences and my own knowledge and asked if he could put her in touch with me. I agreed.
I wrote her briefly and got a very very brief "I'll get back to you" note from her.
Last night I got an email and it took about 10 minutes for me to realize it was from this same woman. It was a sales pitch for me to join her team.
For me, and perhaps I'm being harsh, she falls into the category of not caring about the rules. She abused her relationship with my friend in getting to me. She abused having my email address and she insulted both of us.
I wrote my friend and here is what he said:
"It does however illustrate one of my points which we discussed early on about MLM and why I don't see it in general as a "viable" business for most. It's a lifestyle that basically alienates all that do not participate. It's also requires one to be "on" at all times."
He said the above because her letter to me indicated she was coming to my state to attend her daughter's wedding. And hey, while she was here, she and I should get together so I could become her leader in my state. So, instead of truly enjoying and appreciating a child getting married, instead she was busy sending out recruiting letters hoping to nab one while on her trip :(
Audrey
Beginner Scrapbooking Private Reply to Audrey Okaneko | | May 03, 2006 1:12 pm | | re: re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Kathy Brown | | I am lost. What happened to start this thread???
Did I miss something here? Not surprising as I am too busy to keep up at times
Please enlighten me,so I won't fall into a trap
Kathyy Brown
Private Reply to Kathy Brown | | May 03, 2006 3:39 pm | | re: Do You Think we are idiots? | # | 
Claudia Meydrech | | Me too, Kathy :-)
I think (but am not sure) Andy means when people say they want help with something, but just hope you'll look at their website, or signature lines and click on them.
If we were to be real here, I am sure that everyone is hoping that someone will click on the signature lines, as this is a business network.
But sometimes people don't go beyond that to network, communicate, be friends, etc.
Claudia L. Meydrech, CN
http://happynutritionist.com
THE GAME HAS BEGUN:
http://workathomegrandmoms.comPrivate Reply to Claudia Meydrech | | May 03, 2006 4:29 pm | | re: Do THEY Think we are idiots? | # |
Andrew Barnes | | Judging by the great responses that have, surprisingly, come from my original question, I felt I had phrased it wrong. It isn't 'You' that think we are idiots, but 'They' (see change in subject line! ;-}
>>"It does however illustrate one of my points which we discussed early on about MLM and why I don't see it in general as a "viable" business for most. It's a lifestyle that basically alienates all that do not participate. It's also requires one to be "on" at all times."<<
I have in the past been involved with MLM, and have recently once more 'signed up' after lengthy due-diligence. I have no intention of approaching anyone that I haven't already 'qualified' as someone interested, either by their existing involvement, or by their reply to advertisements, or questions.
I think for any industry, the same rule should apply. The amount of times I am canvassed on insurance ( got it), double-glazing (I rent), Car credit (don't drive) and so on and so on... Marketing can be used well, or badly, irrespective of industry.
Firstly, to me, the email she sent you as described in your post was simply spam.
I think we should all take care to be aware of this. Just because we have had 'some' contact with someone else, it doesn't mean we can start sending them anything.
I am involved with a non-profit venture ( http://www.xanga.com/WTWW - for info) and some people from the relevant kind of networks here at Ryze have been in touch, interested to know more. Does this mean I can then start sending them commercial, sales emails for my business activities. Of course not.
In the UK, our 'spam' laws require that people 'double opt-in' before we can legally send anything commercial. If memory serves, in the US, they can send any message as long as it has an 'opt-out' link. This is just crazy. All this does is tell them that your email at that address gets read, so they sell it to hundreds of others.
If someone wants to send me business mail, then I must subscribe to their list on a site, or some other way, then click the 'confirm' link in an email to verify that it was me that made the request. Each message must then still carry an 'un-subscribe' link.
>>I think (but am not sure) Andy means when people say they want help with something, but just hope you'll look at their website, or signature lines and click on them.<<
Yes. It was this sort of posting I was referring to. The particularly 'brain-dead' ones are those that somehow think we all spend time in just one network, and don't notice when they post the same at multiple networks.
Some are very sophisticated about it. They might post some well known quote, playing the 'for your benefit' card. Great, if they also actually joined in in conversation, answered legitimate calls for help, and shared some of their expertise, if they have any, but no, they just post the same inane quote on a few networks, sometimes spacing them out over a few days, just to get their link shown.
As I say, 'do they think we are idiots?'. They must think we are as brain-dead as them and can't work out what they are trying to do.
Very occasionally, I will post the same posting a few times, with a few words changed, to keep Ryze happy, but this only when I have some important news I feel the folk at more than one network may benefit from.
In fact, as I am a very active poster (which I appreciate many don't have time for), I very rarely 'promote', preferring to have people go to my Ryze page to find out about ME, where they can then learn about my business.
It does work. Have you seen the number of 'hitys' my page has received in 9 months?
I love it when a mutually beneficial relationship can develop through on-line networking. I have purchased from Ryzers, had Ryzers purchase from me, and I have also been happy to refer people onto other Ryzers where a friendship has been made. Everyone was happy. Win/Win. At no time did any of this come from 'playing games' but simply from nurturing honest and active friendships. THIS is what networking is about, to my mind.
Many networks have an AD day, and/or AD thread, as indeed I do at my network (see Ryze page), and this is well and good. We all know where we are.
I would just like to go into a 'room' and find nothing but friendly, constructive conversation, as we have here on this thread, without having my mood lowered by some-one acting like a door-to-door salesman.
OK. Rant over. I think I have cleared my chest now. Surprising. I didn't know this was all in there. Obviously needed to get.
Metta.
AndyE
"The Honest Marketer".
http://www.etribes.com/britwebPrivate Reply to Andrew Barnes | | May 04, 2006 3:20 am | | re: re: Do THEY Think we are idiots? | # |
T. D. Furbush | | Do you feel better now, Andy? ;-D Private Reply to T. D. Furbush | | May 04, 2006 3:33 am | | re: re: Do THEY Think we are idiots? | # | 
Reg Charie | | HAVE I GOT A DEAL FOR YOU AndyE.
Oops.. LoL
>I love it when a mutually beneficial relationship can develop through on-line networking. I have purchased from Ryzers, had Ryzers purchase from me, and I have also been happy to refer people onto other Ryzers where a friendship has been made. Everyone was happy. Win/Win. At no time did any of this come from 'playing games' but simply from nurturing honest and active friendships. THIS is what networking is about, to my mind.
I think most would agree with you on that.
It is mostly the newbies that do not either take time to understand the value and protocol of networking, or just think anything is ok.
Sometimes this is just their excitement at getting themselves online with a real "business" without considering how others will view them.
RegPrivate Reply to Reg Charie | | May 04, 2006 3:37 am | | Do THEY Think we are idiots? | # |
Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | Delayed Gratification:
Wisdom
A young lady on the way home from school, was thinking of a watermelon stand and field on the way to her home. When she got there, the signs said "Watermelons $4"
She dug into her pockets and pulled out 40 cents. She asked the tenant if he had a melon for 40 cents. The tenant scratched his head trying to think how he could help her. He said, "Yeah, come over here to this 3rd row in the field." There ly some melons slightly bigger than baseballs. The tenant said, "Thar ya go, you can get this one for 40 cents."
The young lady smiled and cheerfully handed the man her money and said, "Super, I'll be back in 3 weeks to pick it up."
============================
HAPPY MAY EVERYONE !
Debbie
Private Reply to Debbie Fortier-Success Leaves Clues | | |
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