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what law can do?Views: 1289
Aug 02, 2008 1:11 pmwhat law can do?#

Swetha Mourougane
Scneario-1

A abuses B in a rude way in public by using filthy words.
B responds to him angrily by physicaly assaulting A.
A goes to police.

---

Scenario-2

A abuses B in a rude way in public by using filthy words.
B goes to Police.

------------

What law can do in these two given scenarios?

Private Reply to Swetha Mourougane

Aug 02, 2008 3:26 pmre: what law can do?#

Marielena Alvarez
Unless there are witnesses to the physical assault and photos of the bruises, it is all heresay

Verbal abuse, with no witnesses, also is heresay. With witnesses, perhaps a case of slander or defamation of character. A case for civil court if there is enough evidence.

Private Reply to Marielena Alvarez

Aug 04, 2008 5:27 pmre: re: re: what law can do?#

Ritu
Scenario A : Police abuses them both & then physically assaults them both.

Scenario B : They go to the court, & the court slaps a penalty for filing frivolous cases & wasting the time of the court.

Senario C : They go to the court fight the case for years ...& their children fight the case after them .... till everyone loses track of who abused or who assaulted first.

Private Reply to Ritu

Aug 05, 2008 3:49 amre: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Vijay Nair
Ritu's answers may seem funny, but I fear they would come true as well.

Shweta, your queries are way too ambiguous and hypothetical for one to even provide any probabilities.







Vijay Nair, Partner
KNM & Partners, Law Offices
http://www.knm.in/

Private Reply to Vijay Nair

Aug 05, 2008 5:27 amre: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Hiren Shah
Ritu's answers are more true than funny.

Yesterday, I was reading a strange story in the Readers Digest in the context of sexual offence/misconduct. The concerned woman belonged to the CRPF and had an excellent trackrecord. She was forcibly kissed by some IG(Inspector General) and then some second in command also tried to get fresh with her and demanded that she introduce her to her lady constables working under her. She filed a compalint against both though she had no real proof, had to wait for years and no real reprimand took place on top of which she was shunted off to some north east state as a punishment posting for being "diffcult". In the meanwhile, the miscreants got promoted. All this left her mentally and emotionally devastated and she left the CRPF to join the Art of living spiritual course which she now teaches. Neadless to mention, the real identity of the victim was not mentioned but the manner in which some of the story is naarated, it seems that this kind of thing is considered normal or natuaral like the spoils of war in some cultures where soldiers tend to resort to similar mischief. I have read stuff like this is some American management books but in some of those cases, at least an effective rederessal mechanism is in place.

Today in the papers it has come that political parites are doing a verbal ping pong on who was really guilty in the cash scam in the recent majority vote in parliament providing their own version of "proof".

The fact remains that whatever be the issue, without evidence the courts cannot do much and for the wrongdoers take full advantage of that. At this rate, maybe someday a law shall be passed that everybody should compulsorily move around with a web camera or something like that which should remain on all the time . This sort of thing can be countered only if everyone starts behaving like Tarun Tejpal and if not in the age of information revolution and mass communication, then when? It boils down to what you can get away with. Even the Australian cricketers sledge becasue they get away with it. They would not dare to talk like that if it was possible to hear them.

Private Reply to Hiren Shah

Aug 05, 2008 7:45 amre: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Swetha Mourougane
lol @ ritu

ROFL @ Vijay :)))

whether law takes into account 'provocation to commit a crime' in the given two scenario, or in general?

Private Reply to Swetha Mourougane

Aug 06, 2008 6:48 amre: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Hiren Shah
In the post above, I should have mentioned that that woman had filed a writ petition in the supreme court which closed the case because it felt that the men had been punished- one got a small cut in salary increments and the other got a written censure. This is hardly a deterrant for such offences.

Today, in the Times of India under the headlines "In India, even God is helpless", the supreme court expressesd its frustration after failing to goad the govenmentsto amend laws to treat squatting in government premises(illegal overstaying in govt accomodation) as criminal tresspass of public property.

If the supreme court can express such helplessness in a matter which is obviously right and does not require proof, what can the law do anyway?

Private Reply to Hiren Shah

Aug 06, 2008 8:43 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Ritu
Hiren: ' At this rate, maybe someday a law shall be passed that everybody should compulsorily move around with a web camera or something like that which should remain on all the time . This sort of thing can be countered only if everyone starts behaving like Tarun Tejpal and if not in the age of information revolution and mass communication, then when?'

@Hiren all I can say is What an idea sirjee...it could be a panacea to the ubiquitous legal question 'saboot hai kya??'(do you have any proof??) But the reason that we can't make anything foolproof is that we can never underestimate the ingenuity of fools or the law-breakers in this case...if we come up with webcams in no time will they start using that to their own benefit (in the latest bombing also we can see terrorists using technology more 'effectively' & 'efficiently' )...what with morphing & tempering of digital records (incidentally are digital records such as CDs admissible in courts currently???? as far as I know they are not)....so using webcams is scary....not only because of privacy concerns but also potential misuse.

Though swetha's question looks frivolous but it has made me curious legally speaking i.e......are there any specific laws & sections which punish verbal abuse????? Instigating others to crime is indeed punishable but does mere verbal abuse constitute enough instigation?? Cos personally I'm never affected by someone abusing me verbally...instead of hitting them I'd only laugh at them in their face...but still its a valid question of law.

Private Reply to Ritu

Aug 06, 2008 2:35 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Ritu
In the above post webcam refers to the idea of 24/7 webcam to be carried by everyone as in the idea proposed by Hiren.

& Instigating is not instigating but provoking...I guess that instigating somebody to commit crime is different from provoking somebody to commit crime.

Private Reply to Ritu

Aug 09, 2008 8:11 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Swetha Mourougane
@ Ritu
Tarun Tejpal? has he become a role model for our younger generation?

Private Reply to Swetha Mourougane

Aug 10, 2008 4:21 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Ritu
Younger generation does impromptu 'stinging' a lot but its not Tarun Tejpal...it's the technology, stupid! As for the stings..they have been the good, the bad & the ugly...they have been used & abused (tampered) & overused & underused (the latest CNN-IBN being one such ...sting but not show + also accused of being tampered...if there are so many accusations against a sting then stinging proves to be without merit in many cases)

Hey, stinging aside...what happened to your initial query?? It's kinda getting sidetracked. For the moment we'll just assume that it's proved A & B actually did what they are being accused of doing. Tell me that it was a quiz & you already know the answer!!

Private Reply to Ritu

Aug 11, 2008 4:18 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Hiren Shah
Nothing wrong with the right kind of stings like everything else in life- Sting is King.

Private Reply to Hiren Shah

Aug 11, 2008 5:49 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Ritu
Yeah Hiren...there are stings & then there are stings.

Private Reply to Ritu

Aug 12, 2008 1:40 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

charuhasan

Ritu…. Your scenarios were well done. It needs a lawyer to agree to it. They say “law is an ass.’ My better half says Charu is an ass. My deduction is `Charu is Law.’ (UN-to himself?)

Private Reply to charuhasan

Aug 12, 2008 6:40 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: what law can do?#

Ritu
Thanks Charu, I'm glad that you liked the scenarios ...& your deduction is both smart & funny...I like the humor & the spirit behind it. & it reminded me of 2 of my favorite deductive reasoning jokes, if one can call them that ( I dunno whether I should be posting them here but I'm posting them anyways)

1. A seventh grade Biology teacher arranged a demonstration for his class.He took two earth worms and in front of the class he did the following:
He dropped the first worm into a beaker of water where it dropped to the bottom and wriggled about. He dropped the second worm into a beaker of alchohol and it immediately shriveled up and died. He asked the class if
anyone knew what this demonstration was intended to show them.

A boy in the second row immediately shot his arm up and, when called on said:
"You're showing us that if we drink alcohol, all the worms in our stomach will die......so we should drink alchohol a lot."

2. A scientist performs an experiment. He takes a spider and tears off two of its legs.
"Go," he tells the spider and the spider goes.
The scientist makes a note in his log and tears off another pair of legs.
"Go," says the scientist and the spider goes.
He makes another note in the log and repeats the process until he tears off the last pair of legs.
"Go," the scientist says but the spider doesn't move. The scientist makes the following note in his log:
'Conclusion: A spider with no legs can't hear.'


Hiren, sting is sometimes the king ( but I guess the king is dead, long live the king...today stings have degenerated to very low standards...if Tarun Tejpal was dead he would be turning in his grave);somehow whenever I think of sting only those weird & crap stings done by India TV come to my mind ( remember the one with Shakti Kapoor?? or the Uma Khurana one??)...these stings simply stank. I'd like to be reminded of the real & good ones?? the stings as in how they are really suppossed to be.... honest, ethical & exposing the behind the scenes corruptions.

~In 2007 there was some buzz about enacting law to regulate sting operations. Has anything come out of it?
~Are stings admissible in courts as evidence?
~Is verbally abusing anyone punishable?
~If A abuses B & B hits A back does B escape punishment on the alibi that he hit A only cos he was provoked?

Private Reply to Ritu

Aug 13, 2008 3:52 amWhat are Law-makers doing ?#

Tiger A
I agree with Ritu, Disagree with Vijay (Our Learned Consel :-)) etc. etc. .. But commenting on the last bit by Ritu, "coraborating Evidence is admisable." Sting or No Sting. for E.g. a telephone Conversation between Ms. X and Mr. Y - recorded without permision or Informing the court prior to the evidence, will not be admisable - but will be sufficient to "inspire confidence in the court" to skew it's judgement to a side. Of course - such decisions will go for the Appeal or to the double bench etc. etc.

So my learned friends, a good counsel is good till you and him/ her work in a team...law only tells you how go about the certain pertaining definitions, rest in a court, it the Judges ideology - under the ambit of the law !

cheers

Vaibhav

Private Reply to Tiger A

Aug 13, 2008 5:35 amre: What are Law-makers doing ?#

Hiren Shah
I agree, Ritu. The Shakti kapoor and Uma khurana stings were a blot on the media; however one cannot stop the genuine stings because of that.

I personally feel that the media can expedite justice even in minor matters if some system/mechanism of highlighting the wrong in the right way is devised. Yesterday, my father obtained a certificate of membership of a co-operative society after writing eight letters to the concerned authority. He had to sit on their heads to get it done. Why should anybody be made to suffer in their old age like this? India must be full of all kinds of injustices which the media can make transparent. That would give law a spring indeed. Spring or string; what is right has to prevail and the media is looking for stories anyway.

Private Reply to Hiren Shah

Aug 14, 2008 3:23 pmre: re: What are Law-makers doing ?#

Swetha Mourougane
@ Ritu
who can disagree with Ritu dear? :)

my initial queries will stay so long as the affected party get justice... :)

Private Reply to Swetha Mourougane

Aug 15, 2008 2:22 amre: re: re: What are Law-makers doing ?#

charuhasan
Swethaji,
It is easy to ask questions and difficult to answer. Probably that is why they are all called questions of law. There is a subtle difference between a questions of law and questions of fact. Your first question is a question of law.

Now listen to this,
If Swethaji is A and and Charu hasan is B. Now If A tells B with a crowd of people who can give evidence of all questions fact “You are a very stupid actor and fit to give up acting along with such other actors who follow your method , so that common is not fooled into believing what is good cinema!” The statement is quite “rude” and may be disapproved by all actors in general and B in particular. That B assaults A is a crime under sec 352 I.P.C, however rude the original remark may be.

If A tells B that he is rapist thief and a swindler, still B can only prosecute A for defamation. A physical assault can become punishable. Only the extent of punishment could be less as a rule of applying “grave and sudden provocation’ applicable to reduce a culpable homicide amounting to murder into one not amounting to murder, may come into operation.

Have I confused you enough? Please give the issue to your lawyer asking him to meet your enemy’s lawyer to arrive at a settlement. If you go to court the two lawyers will have their square meal and you and your enemy will have to work harder to get your next meal.
Charuhasan

Private Reply to charuhasan

Aug 17, 2008 6:04 amre: re: re: re: What are Law-makers doing ?#

Swetha Mourougane
fair enuf charu sir.

i love actor charu
but not lawyer charu
hehehe

actor charu was superb in Thalapathi, Vedham Puthithu.
his expressions were awesome.


Private Reply to Swetha Mourougane

Nov 18, 2008 11:08 amre: re: re: re: re: What are Law-makers doing ?#

charuhasan
Swetha,
Remember that I came into cinema as a non actor and then I started obeying directors.
Ritu
Finally you have been found wrong. I saw on the TV that the cops stood by while Madras Law students were beating each other to death. My kind of cops of the old have arrested 25 later, and are looking for another 25 absconding offenders.

The previous record is that the cops of chennai have taken into custody two chief ministers one religious head, and one C.M.'s son, who have been sent back to freedom by other authorities. I plead guilty on their behalf and let them free too.

Private Reply to charuhasan

Nov 29, 2008 12:51 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: What are Law-makers doing ?#

Swetha Mourougane
btw charu sir
whats your latest project?

Private Reply to Swetha Mourougane

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